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Who would make a good Honor Harrington in a Movie/TV role?

Join us in talking discussing all things Honor, including (but not limited to) tactics, favorite characters, and book discussions.
Re: Who would make a good Honor Harrington in a Movie/TV rol
Post by pokermind   » Fri May 10, 2013 10:10 am

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Hi Northstar,

So did I but, I liked the carton version done by Ukrainian artist Sergey Plesnetsov: http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_674374&feature=iv&src_vid=pGdra9C-p9A&v=U247KnRcKJA try it out.

If you liked it visit his gallery on Deviant Art http://rastrelly.deviantart.com/gallery/38199883

Poker

Northstar wrote:
MaxxQ wrote:
Also, I hated Sky Captain, even before I knew the story. In fact, I've detested almost everything Jolie has ever done.


Hi MaxxQ,

You and me both. There is a fan flick on utube borrowing from Sky Captain, pretending Jolie is Honor. Horrible, arrogant, snotty, swaggering twit, nothing like I've ever imagined Honor to be. At all. Ever.
CPO Poker Mind Image and, Mangy Fur the Smart Alick Spacecat.

"Better to be hung for a hexapuma than a housecat," Com. Pang Yau-pau, ART.
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Re: Who would make a good Honor Harrington in a Movie/TV rol
Post by Spacekiwi   » Fri May 10, 2013 6:31 pm

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Awesome! Now imagine what its going to look like with a really nice amount of money behind the projects....
`
Image


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
its not paranoia if its justified... :D
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Re: Who would make a good Honor Harrington in a Movie/TV rol
Post by Northstar   » Fri May 10, 2013 7:58 pm

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pokermind wrote:Hi Northstar,

So did I but, I liked the carton version done by Ukrainian artist Sergey Plesnetsov: http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_674374&feature=iv&src_vid=pGdra9C-p9A&v=U247KnRcKJA try it out.

If you liked it visit his gallery on Deviant Art http://rastrelly.deviantart.com/gallery/38199883

Poker


Hi Poker,

Interesting clip.

I confess my fave fanflick for Honor is Honor Harrington ~ The Tradition Lives by kikii155555 ... who is our very own Admiral StarKnight, who posted so many wonderful posts on your Honorverse humor thread awhile back. Hers is charming, with fun music and a lot of art, both pro and fan. You can see it listed on the right right side of the link you give above for utube.

Also over there is one titled Honor Harrington, by valentin02NF. It has the Manticore on its thumbnail pix. It is mainly book covers and the titling is in German, but the music is from my fave cd for Honorverse Music E. S. Posthumus, Unearthed, the track used is cut 6 on the cd, Nara.

cheers,

Northstar

edited for...typos :D
Last edited by Northstar on Sat May 11, 2013 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Who would make a good Honor Harrington in a Movie/TV rol
Post by pokermind   » Sat May 11, 2013 12:31 am

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Hi Northstar
Image http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npXYSkUO76o it's quite good. Unfortunately modern electronic music is not my taste Image

Admiral StarKnight is quite talented, and has written several Fan Fic stories too. Talented girl, what a 60 year old male calls an 18 year old female not meant as an insult.

Poker
CPO Poker Mind Image and, Mangy Fur the Smart Alick Spacecat.

"Better to be hung for a hexapuma than a housecat," Com. Pang Yau-pau, ART.
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Re: Who would make a good Honor Harrington in a Movie/TV rol
Post by Northstar   » Sat May 11, 2013 2:43 pm

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pokermind wrote:Hi Northstar
Image http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npXYSkUO76o it's quite good. Unfortunately modern electronic music is not my taste Image

Admiral StarKnight is quite talented, and has written several Fan Fic stories too. Talented girl, what a 60 year old male calls an 18 year old female not meant as an insult.

Poker


Hi again, Poker, and thanks for the link. I'm not good at those.

Another I like is H.M.S. Unicorn -Honorverse RPG by flamigosatwork. Another German effort that is quite spiffy. I can find the name of the music, I know I have it on a cd, but cannot dredge up the name at the moment.

addendum...I found the cd. It is Invincible, by Two Steps From Hell, cut 2 Heart of Courage - Thomas Bergersen. The first cut on this is used on another Honorverse fanflick on utube, something about a wedge demo or cruiser demo, I forget which. That cut is named Freedom Fighters - Thomas Bergersen.

My music tastes are quite eclectic, I like some things in most categories... I also hate some things in most categories. eh. :)

And, IIRC, Admiral StarKnight is more like 25 or so. A very talented lady. I wish she'd post more again.

Hear me, Admiral??? Where are you? :D


edited to add info
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Re: Who would make a good Honor Harrington in a Movie/TV rol
Post by 61Cygni   » Mon May 20, 2013 12:45 am

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Think I'll finally translate out of hyperspace.... :D

I say that acting ability definitely should be the top priority when it comes to casting the character of Honor, not physical similarity. There's got to be a million examples of this in movie history, but here's two examples:

1. The Jack Reacher movie starring Tom Cruiser. I didn't know a thing about this book series, but in following the movie discussion I learned that in the books the title character is 6'5 and 220 lbs, and of course Tom Cruise isn't anything near that. Apparently the author of the series, Lee Child, requested Cruise.

2. In the Master and Commander movie, apparently Russel Crowe doesn't match the written description of Aubrey, but Crowe certainly has the ability to play the character.

So if you're the type who is demanding that whoever plays Honor in the movie match her descriptio exactly, then I think you'll be very disappointed. The ability to portay her personality, charisma and leadership skills are what's important, not the physical appearance. If the producers can find someone who DOES look like her written description AND can pull off the character (hmm, maybe the next breakout star?), then all's the better. Otherwise, I'll be perfectly happy if Honor in the movie is 5'5" and a blonde American. Remember, makeup, both the physical and CGI kind, can do a lot with physical appearance.

As for the movie in general, I think someone here said that there's going to be a certain group of the fandom that's going to be very disappointed with it; it might end up being a rather large group. Face it, OBS as written can't be filmed as is, and so the movie version of OBS is not going to the same as the book. I'll be happy, as with Peter Jackson's LOTR movies, that the movie perfectly captures the essence and themes of the book, but as for the plot, a lot of things will have to be changed to make the movie work. For one thing, given the movie's relatively short planned length, it's going to have to be action-packed, as it's just not long enough to be a detailed character and political study. Of course, as mentioned, OBS doesn't actually have that much action, so either what action there is will have to be expanded or additional action will have to be added. Stuff from the other books in the Homor series can be easily added (think what was done with Master and Commander, where two of the books were combined), or alternatively, the Mesan Alignment can be introduced, maybe they can do something like instigate pirate attacks that Honor and Fearless have to deal with; this would be a great way to introduce the Honorverse style of space combat.

Something WILL have to be done with the lightspeed lag in communication, as that simply cannot be done in a movie. It's no problem at all in a book, but you can't have 2+ minutes between lines in a movie version. So either all long-range comms are eliminated and everyone talks within radio/laser range of each other (i.e. not millions of kilometers) so they can have real-time conversations, or just have Manticore at least already using the FTL grav-pulse comm system, and you might have to give it to everyone to simplify things (it would be a "standard" feature like the impeller drive). I like the latter option, even if it is a departure from the books, but it's one of the changes people will have to expect.

This was also mentioned, but I also think the treecats should already know how to sign in the movie. Nimitz is so important to Honor that she has to be able to talk with him, and this would be the ideal way to handle all of her internal monologues and thinking, by making them external dualogues with Nimitz.

I think the best way to handle the book's prologue and the whole introduction of Haven is create a scene where Honor is briefed on her mission to Basilisk. This can be used to present a short summary of the whole Manticore-Haven-Basilisk situation. Later on you can then maybe show the Havenite leaders dicussing their plans and such. No way should there be a narrated intro sequence or similar at the start of the movie, it's too short to waste the time on on. This isn't LOTR where you're dealing with thousand of years of history, it's just one relatively simple and short story.

I think the best way to intro the movie is to have Honor battling some of the aforementioned pirates, maybe it could happen in Silesia. The Honorverse at its core started off as military SF, so let's kick off with the military side of things. In fact, the whole wargames thing in the book can be dispensed with, instead have Honor ruffling someone's feathers with her actions in this new Silesia action so she gets "banished" to Basilisk as a resultt. Or to exand this furthur, Basilisk isn't a "punishment" station at all, it's a high-value area and Honor is recognized a s rising star and is sent there because the RMN needs her there. See how the story can be altered while still keeping the essence of the book and the Honorverse in general?
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Re: Who would make a good Honor Harrington in a Movie/TV rol
Post by Jonathan_S   » Mon May 20, 2013 12:40 pm

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61Cygni wrote:Something WILL have to be done with the lightspeed lag in communication, as that simply cannot be done in a movie. It's no problem at all in a book, but you can't have 2+ minutes between lines in a movie version. So either all long-range comms are eliminated and everyone talks within radio/laser range of each other (i.e. not millions of kilometers) so they can have real-time conversations, or just have Manticore at least already using the FTL grav-pulse comm system, and you might have to give it to everyone to simplify things (it would be a "standard" feature like the impeller drive). I like the latter option, even if it is a departure from the books, but it's one of the changes people will have to expect.
I agree that you can't actually wait out lightspeed lag in realtime in the movie; it'd make the dialog drag painfully. (Every once in a while it might make sense for dramatic reasons to wait it out to see if the the critical message arrived in time)

But I don't know that eliminating the lag (as opposed to editing out the 'dead time') is necessary. I'd have to see how it worked on screen but off the top of my head you could try dealing with it by an occasional line of dialog mentioning how long the transmission delay currently is - then cut back and forth between the transmitting and receiving ends of the conversation.

You'd could still have the "on the chip - send it" when you wanted; or the dead time discussions. But for each transmission decide whether it's more important to see the transmission being recorded or the reaction as it's received and switch to that command deck.


It wouldn't work if the transmission were a real ongoing back and forth conversation; but due to the delay they're more like a series of semi-self contained speeches, so there aren't very many back-and-forths.



Now I don't insist on keeping the delays; if it doesn't work on screen, or the blocks of record and send dialog don't pace well then by all means drop the lag and have a more normal realtime back and forth where the actors can interrupt each other if necessary.
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Re: Who would make a good Honor Harrington in a Movie/TV rol
Post by The E   » Mon May 20, 2013 1:08 pm

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Here's the thing for me: Removing the intricacies of the Honorverse would ultimately cheapen it. The moments in the book where someone realizes "Oh shit, they really CAN do FTL communications", or "Now we can talk to Treecats as equals" are kinda important.

In the end, you can get around comms lag by pointing out that it exists a few times, and then editing around it. Making all comms FTL from the get-go leads to all kinds of stupidity (Remember that the only reason Honor was able to fight the Masadans in HotQ was that she had FTL sensor telemetry that the other side didn't know about). Better to keep the gradual introduction of new tech.

Besides, all of what 61Cygni mentioned in his post is to me a typical conceit towards the perceived stupidity of the audience, which I think we really do not need anymore when there's ample proof out there that if you trust your audience, it'll all work out better.
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Re: Who would make a good Honor Harrington in a Movie/TV rol
Post by Jeroswen   » Mon May 20, 2013 1:29 pm

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Jonathan_S wrote:
61Cygni wrote:Something WILL have to be done with the lightspeed lag in communication, as that simply cannot be done in a movie. It's no problem at all in a book, but you can't have 2+ minutes between lines in a movie version. So either all long-range comms are eliminated and everyone talks within radio/laser range of each other (i.e. not millions of kilometers) so they can have real-time conversations, or just have Manticore at least already using the FTL grav-pulse comm system, and you might have to give it to everyone to simplify things (it would be a "standard" feature like the impeller drive). I like the latter option, even if it is a departure from the books, but it's one of the changes people will have to expect.
I agree that you can't actually wait out lightspeed lag in realtime in the movie; it'd make the dialog drag painfully. (Every once in a while it might make sense for dramatic reasons to wait it out to see if the the critical message arrived in time)

But I don't know that eliminating the lag (as opposed to editing out the 'dead time') is necessary. I'd have to see how it worked on screen but off the top of my head you could try dealing with it by an occasional line of dialog mentioning how long the transmission delay currently is - then cut back and forth between the transmitting and receiving ends of the conversation.

You'd could still have the "on the chip - send it" when you wanted; or the dead time discussions. But for each transmission decide whether it's more important to see the transmission being recorded or the reaction as it's received and switch to that command deck.


It wouldn't work if the transmission were a real ongoing back and forth conversation; but due to the delay they're more like a series of semi-self contained speeches, so there aren't very many back-and-forths.



Now I don't insist on keeping the delays; if it doesn't work on screen, or the blocks of record and send dialog don't pace well then by all means drop the lag and have a more normal realtime back and forth where the actors can interrupt each other if necessary.


If you give everyone FTL that takes away ALOT from the books. This is a military Sci-Fi and com lag can be done without making the audience wait for it.

Example:

Shot of Honor's Bridge, unknown ship is detected and plotted. A time stamp is placed at the bottom of the screen stating "Bridge of HMS Fearless 02:30". A request for identification is sent out and tracking and identification is started.

Switch to an outside view of the incoming ship and move into the bridge area with new a new time stamp displayed "Pirate Raider Sharon's Folly 02:45". Com officer reports incoming transmission. The pirate captain issues orders and sends a message back to Fearless. Then the cycle repeats with each captain discussing options etc.

The dialogue moves along and the audience is aware of the lag but it doesn't slow down the movie.

As for the statement to have Basylisk a high value target. I would say no, what makes Honor in this book is her leadership in pulling the ship and its crew together and meeting a near impossible set of demands because her sense of duty won't let her slack off.

One point I'd like to make is please do not make this just an action flick without any character development. I am so tired of, weak character, things go boom, more weak character scenes, more things go boom, followed by an obligatory sex scene, then a lot of things go boom for the finish.

You have plenty to work with.
1. Whatever they decide gets Honor and her ship banished to Basylisk.
2. She shows up, get abandoned by the commander right away. No references need be made just the audience knows these two don't like each other and he is purposely screwing her over.
3. She takes charge of the sector, merchant houses are pissed, captains upset, etc. Worrisome reports about native trouble. Honor takes preventive measures.
4. Uprising starts, Honor dispatches the marines and the chase after Sirius and resulting fight starts.
5. End scene with home fleet arriving at Basylisk and Honor's broken ship in orbit and the commander debriefing Honor and the audience seeing first hand what the battle cost her emotionally.

Depending on how you flesh it out you can fit all that out in 100 minutes. What makes this story for me is through strong leadership the ship and crew redeemed themselves. This will make it something other than another military shoot'em up.

Oh and I agree, you need someone who can pull off the role before you need to find a tall Eurasian girl.

Just my two cents
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Re: Who would make a good Honor Harrington in a Movie/TV rol
Post by 61Cygni   » Mon May 20, 2013 2:46 pm

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Anyone know if this is supposed to be a big-budget major theatrical release, or something low-budget for direct-to-video or something like SyFy? Because if it's a B-movie, then you can do something like Serenity and make it a love letter to the fans and be happy with a $40-50 million gross and video sales. If the budget is low enough, and it makes enough money to be profitable, then there just might be more movies produced, and they can follow the books very closely.

However, if this is going to be a big-budget major release, then you have to go for a wider audience appeal, and that means some major changes from the books. As a comparision, the Tolkien fanatics have really cried and whined about Peter Jackson's LOTR movies, but what he did was absolutely necessary, as LOTR could not be filmed as written, and big changes HAD to be done.

Right now you can't expect another Honorverse movie to be made, let alone a whole series of them. So this one has to be stuffed with as much as possible from the books. If you don't like the idea of making FTL comms standard for everyone(and the quality can be varied among star nations, e.g. Haven's is poorer than Manticore's), then the ranges for combat and comms alike will have to greatly compressed. Not millions of km, but hundreds of thousands at most, and more likely at tens of thousands to visual range. Either that or eliminate long-range 2-way comms completely, so if Homor wants a conversation with Dame Estelle, she'll have to go into orbit around Medusa first. The bottom line is that you simply can't realistically depict light-speed comm lags in a movie, unless you're maing a limited for-fans-only release. Look what was done in 2001: A Space Odyssey with the BBC interview with Dave and Frank: we saw an after-the-fact recording of the interview with the comm lag edited out.

This might be treating the audience as if it was "stupid", but that's today's Hollywood movie reality, where comic book and superhero movies are the rage and what currently passed for "sci fi" these days (as much as I like Star Wars, I personally blame George Lucas for ruining cinematic space SF after Kubrick raised it to its greatest hight with 2001). I'm actually hoping the OBS movie IS a limited-release B-movie that goes straight to video, because then it might actually be what we fans want it to be.
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