Spoiler Solarian idiots Spoiler

We have been lamenting the fact that there has not appeared a Solarian bureaucrats with the brains to see what is going to happen. Yet, when one comes along, we don't mention her at all. Lt. Gov. Tiilikainen had the brains and intestinal fortitude to get many of the people of her system out of the way of the violence. While she did this in a round-about way, she did do it.

What do you think the consequences will be for her? How likely is it that she will remain the voice of reason in Saltash?

IMPO, LT. Gov. Tiilikainen will, because she has shown both FF and the Saltash people she has a brain that works and that she does care about the consequences, end up leading a revolt against OFS. Captain Myau will realize that her best chance is backing the LT. Gov. Captain MacNaughton already has some respect for her and this incident will only add to that. His knowledge that his people need that outside influence to prevent wholesale destruction will also work in her favor. I can see Tiilikainen becoming one of the first of the "Warlords" to arise out of the collapse of the League. Especially once word of the fall of Meyers begins to get around.

Having decided to conquer/liberate the Madras Sector, it seems unlikely to me that Mike would leave the current Governor and Gendarme commander in place at Saltash.

Deposing them in favor of a mix of amenable and relatively "innocent" local and OFS officials would be a prudent first step on the path to local self-government.

Not war-lords, but the first step in building successor states.

If there is a future Madras Federation, Saltash is close enough that it might want to join.

Saltash is a and independent star system. I think not part of Madras at all. Bold is my emphasis.

SOF Chapter 10 wrote:“Yes, Ma’am.” Kaplan’s Grayson-born astrogator didn’t bother to consult his notes. “Technically, Saltash’s an independent star system. Actually, it’s been an OFS client for about sixty T-years. The single habitable planet is called Cinnamon. Orbital radius is about nine light-minutes, population’s just under two-point-five billion. Planetary diameter’s only point-nine-six Old Earth, but gravity’s almost a full standard gravity, so it’s obviously a little denser than most. Hydrosphere is right on seventy-three percent, and its axial inclination’s only nine degrees, so it sounds like a fairly nice place to live.

So not sure how valid that line of reasoning is. Plus it is something like 200+ light years from Meyers.

Chapter 12 also mentions that it isn't officially Solarian space.

Unless you have a different stuff as mine is kind of vague.

Have fun,
T2M

waddles for desert wrote:Having decided to conquer/liberate the Madras Sector, it seems unlikely to me that Mike would leave the current Governor and Gendarme commander in place at Saltash.

Deposing them in favor of a mix of amenable and relatively "innocent" local and OFS officials would be a prudent first step on the path to local self-government.

Not war-lords, but the first step in building successor states.

If there is a future Madras Federation, Saltash is close enough that it might want to join.

MacNaughtan is not Gendarme. He is the senior member of the Saltash Space Service on Shona Station. He is also a member of the former ruling family.

Captain Zavala did not force a regime change while he was in Saltash. All he did was retrieve his spacers from the station, along with their ships.

As word of what happened at Meyers spreads, and it eventually will, some of the Protectorates (such as Saltash) will start to get restive. Lt. Gov. Tiilikainen has positioned herself as a reasonable individual with the local FF CO, as well as the locals. Since the conditions that created the opening for OFS to move into Saltash have not changed significantly, they still need an outside influence (or at least a neutral party) to keep the lid on local animosity. By placing the welfare of both parties above her own, she has begun to build a separate power base independent of her OFS position. If she can build on that beginning, she might be able to wrest control of the system from Duenas. If she does it well enough, she could end up in power. Whether or not it is a democratic system or a autocratic one, she might end up being an independent power with a Navy of her own.

Somewhere later in the book it is mentioned that Duenas' after action report passed through Mesa.

Since unemployed or detached OFS officials don't write any official reports, I think it's safe to assume that Zavala didn't tinker with the political system on-site.

He went in, trashed the Sollie military presence, boxed his civilians out and then got out again, that's how I interpret the situation and frankly - why should he have done anything more?

So I would assume that everyone is still in place, including Governor Duenas and Major Pole.

Therefore they'll do their best to shift the blame around. Best targets: Tiilikainen, Ping-Wa and the local Saltash forces on Shona station.

Meaning that Tiilikainen and other forces of reason will have their hands full just defending themselves against Duenas game of blame.

KNick wrote:We have been lamenting the fact that there has not appeared a Solarian bureaucrats with the brains to see what is going to happen. Yet, when one comes along, we don't mention her at all. Lt. Gov. Tiilikainen had the brains and intestinal fortitude to get many of the people of her system out of the way of the violence. While she did this in a round-about way, she did do it.

What do you think the consequences will be for her? How likely is it that she will remain the voice of reason in Saltash?

IMPO, LT. Gov. Tiilikainen will, because she has shown both FF and the Saltash people she has a brain that works and that she does care about the consequences, end up leading a revolt against OFS. Captain Myau will realize that her best chance is backing the LT. Gov. Captain MacNaughton already has some respect for her and this incident will only add to that. His knowledge that his people need that outside influence to prevent wholesale destruction will also work in her favor. I can see Tiilikainen becoming one of the first of the "Warlords" to arise out of the collapse of the League. Especially once word of the fall of Meyers begins to get around.

I had Saltash and Mobius mixed up in my head. So I've removed my less than brilliant post. Got another one to take off below. sorry bout that. Wish I knew how to cancel the whole post but i do not. sigh.

Policy has changed since Mike sent the first expedition to Saltash. Since she has changed her policy, I just do not see Mike leaving a guy like Duenas in control at Saltash. Saltash is more or less on the route from Meyers to Mesa. Maybe a second expedition will be sent to implement the new policy.

Saltash is closer to Lynx than most of the systems in the Talbott Quadrant and about as close to Spindle as systems like Pequod. But, inviting it to join the SEM might seem too imperialistic to star systems the SEM may hope to rally to its cause in the future.

Something like the Madras Federation may be the first SLN successor state. Saltash, while nominally independent, had problems when it was fully independent. But, by now,Saltash would probably be quite pleased to be end its association with OFS. Joining something like a future Madras Federation might be a viable option.

The distance from Meyers to Saltash is probably greater than the distance from Spindle to Pequod. But, it is probably less than the distance from Lynx to Pequod. Maybe not an ideal permanent solution, but maybe the best hope it has for now.

waddles for desert wrote:Policy has changed since Mike sent the first expedition to Saltash. Since she has changed her policy, I just do not see Mike leaving a guy like Duenas in control at Saltash. Saltash is more or less on the route from Meyers to Mesa. Maybe a second expedition will be sent to implement the new policy.

Saltash is closer to Lynx than most of the systems in the Talbott Quadrant and about as close to Spindle as systems like Pequod. But, inviting it to join the SEM might seem too imperialistic to star systems the SEM may hope to rally to its cause in the future.

Something like the Madras Federation may be the first SLN successor state. Saltash, while nominally independent, had problems when it was fully independent. But, by now,Saltash would probably be quite pleased to be end its association with OFS. Joining something like a future Madras Federation might be a viable option.

The distance from Meyers to Saltash is probably greater than the distance from Spindle to Pequod. But, it is probably less than the distance from Lynx to Pequod. Maybe not an ideal permanent solution, but maybe the best hope it has for now.

I need to read the book again. I'm too fuzzy in too many places.

edit: I have Mobius confused with Saltash. There is nothing wrong with me reading the book again, carefully, won't cure. sigh.

Sorry about the oops... One of those days, I guess.

Northstar wrote:

waddles for desert wrote:Policy has changed since Mike sent the first expedition to Saltash. Since she has changed her policy, I just do not see Mike leaving a guy like Duenas in control at Saltash. Saltash is more or less on the route from Meyers to Mesa. Maybe a second expedition will be sent to implement the new policy.

Saltash is closer to Lynx than most of the systems in the Talbott Quadrant and about as close to Spindle as systems like Pequod. But, inviting it to join the SEM might seem too imperialistic to star systems the SEM may hope to rally to its cause in the future.

Something like the Madras Federation may be the first SLN successor state. Saltash, while nominally independent, had problems when it was fully independent. But, by now,Saltash would probably be quite pleased to be end its association with OFS. Joining something like a future Madras Federation might be a viable option.

The distance from Meyers to Saltash is probably greater than the distance from Spindle to Pequod. But, it is probably less than the distance from Lynx to Pequod. Maybe not an ideal permanent solution, but maybe the best hope it has for now.

Did Duenas survive? I thought he was in a bunker under the building Terakov zapped bigtime. ???

I agree with the rest of your post. Sounds entirely reasonable to me.

I need to read the book again. I'm too fuzzy in too many places.

No, Terekov hit the tower that President Lombroso (hiding in the basement) and Brigadier Yucel were in the capital city of Landing (a very common name for capital cities in the Honorverse), in the Mobius system. And the forces that hit both Mobius and Meyers set out after Zavala returned from Saltash. Terekhov even let Yucel know about the results of the battle when he contacted her.

Vince wrote:No, Terekov hit the tower that President Lombroso (hiding in the basement) and Brigadier Yucel were in the capital city of Landing (a very common name for capital cities in the Honorverse), in the Mobius system. And the forces that hit both Mobius and Meyers set out after Zavala returned from Saltash. Terekhov even let Yucel know about the results of the battle when he contacted her.

You are entirely correct. I had the two planets mixed up. I'm feeling fairly dingbat at the moment, Have gone back and zapped the erring posts best I know how.