Special Forces

Hi Kbus888,

Does Charis have to attack Gorath City only via the navy?

Looking at the map, there are other very interesting alternatives. G:-)

Sorry, I wasn't sure this would go through given the announced downtime for Tuesday-Wednesday.

I'm referring to what was the Salthar river, now the Somyr, that until recently (it seems like last week) had no connecting canal which made supplying the Desnairian army across 500 miles from the north end of Salthar Bay almost impossible, if it numbered ~216K with around 150K horses (the 360K size force being split according to relative population, so Dohlar's might be ~144K)) requiring 71-5 dragon wagons every day (X 32 days = 2272-2400 dragons without any spares for sickness etc).
I assumed one reason for the IDA delayed advance was that the delivery rate was 1/7-1/8 of daily requirements, obviously needing several month's of preparation, assuming all of the food and fodder wouldn't spoil.

Given the Thesmar-Silktown canal, which in my opinion should have come from Salthar Bay, since delivery speed and quantity are faster by sea, NTM the distance is far shorter.

Until the canal, the Salthar-Sumyr river was very unlikely to have any locks partly because the lack of traffic, which meant the ironclads could steam 500 miles upriver to destroy the IDA's supply link without worrying about locks, etc.

The point regarding controlling the Somyr river is that its only ~180 miles through the narrowest neck of the Salthar Mountains (probable pass) to the northern fork of the Gorath River, where its only 500 miles to Gorath City.

Since the RDA is way to the north, only poorly armed militias stand in the way to a powerful push possibly early next year.

Interesting, eh? G:-)

L

kbus888 wrote:Hi BrunoBehrends

I was not clear enough.

I was not suggesting terror tactics for Gorath.

What I meant to say (and I'll admit it is not obvious) was that whatever Charis does to Gorath, the king and ALL the members of the Inquisition must be rounded up and executed.

I agree with you that terror tactics are not effective and should not be used, particularly since Charis needs the general population of all of Safehold to unite with it to fight the Gbaba.

Sorry for any possible confusion caused by my admitedly incomplete post.

R

Bruno Behrends wrote:[

< QUOTE kbuss888 >

Hi DrakBibliophil

Except for the king

He needs to go as an example to others

AND the satisfaction of the Charisians who are related to the murdered prisoners.

R

< QUOTE DrakBibliophile >

Not really. The city of Gorath could be leveled after letting the civilian population "refugee out".


SNIP>

< ENDQUOTE DrakBibliophile >

< ENDQUOTE kbuss888 >



I'd like to point out that the levelling of a city won't help Charis to achieve victory at all.

It ESPECIALLY won't dissuade any mainlander from massacering more Charisians.

Terror tactics very seldom worked in the real world and I don't see why things would be different in this literary universe.

Check again if you're thinking of troop movement through South March and the Grand Duchy especially when there's a mountain range between the Grand Duchy and Dohlar.

That's a large area to march through *and* fight through.

Of course, those are troops that are needed to defend Siddarmark.

Since nobody is thinking (at this time) of *holding* Gorath City all that's needed is an one time attack on the city.

That would be easier done via a sea attack not via land attack.

lyonheart wrote:Hi Kbus888,

Does Charis have to attack Gorath City only via the navy?

Looking at the map, there are other very interesting alternatives. G:-)

L

kbus888 wrote:Hi BrunoBehrends

I was not clear enough.

I was not suggesting terror tactics for Gorath.

What I meant to say (and I'll admit it is not obvious) was that whatever Charis does to Gorath, the king and ALL the members of the Inquisition must be rounded up and executed.

I agree with you that terror tactics are not effective and should not be used, particularly since Charis needs the general population of all of Safehold to unite with it to fight the Gbaba.

Sorry for any possible confusion caused by my admitedly incomplete post.

R

biochem wrote:When is Merlin going to introduce the concept of Special Forces to Charis? He is aware of the advantages of an elite group of warriors who can strike deep into enemy territory, destroy their objective and then disappear into the night. After all as Merlin is rapidly discovering, he can't do everything himself.

There are very good reasons why special forces, as we now know them, did not exist until WWII, with reliable, commonly available, aerial reconaissance, motor vehicles and radios.

in general, a modern Special Force has to conduct the following actions, in the following order:


1. define a specific time and place where a small-scale operation needs to be done.

2. Arrive at that location, using either
A) special transports which will deliver them faster than the enemy can react to detecting them, or
B) Special training which will allow them to sneak in without being detected at all.

3. Perform the mission, at the correct time and place, either
A) without the enemy realizing the mission was ever conducted, or
B) complete the mission faster than the enemy can react.

4. escape to a designated extraction point, and depart, either
A. Without the enemy detecting them as they leave, or
B. using special transport the enemy is unable to interfere with.


Without radio or motor transport, those sets of instructions are very difficult to accomplish. taking them one by one:

1. define a specific time and place where a small-scale operation needs to be done.

This requires reliable, day-to-day intelligence of your target areas, with minimal data lag. By WWII, we had spies with radios, and Aerial reconaissance. In Safehold, only Saijin Merlin can supply that intelligence.

but do you really want to risk revealing Saijin Merlin's powers, by telling SF troopers, who are statistically the most likely people to be captured?

2. Arrive at that location, using either
A) special transports which will deliver them faster than the enemy can react to detecting them,

'Special" transports usually means helicopters, paratrooper cargo planes, or submarines, all of which are vehicles not normally available to transport regular troops. Safehold has no such transports: ships and horses are assigned to the normal troops on a routine basis, and nothing else exists which is faster or sneakier. Recon Skimmers can't be revealed for this purpose.

or B) Special training which will allow them to sneak in without being detected at all.

This is theoretically possible. You can certainly dress troops in civilian clothes and teach them to mimic dialects, or infiltrate through jungles or mountains the enemy doesn't believe can be crossed.

3. Perform the mission, at the correct time and place,

the problem here is, what if the correct time and place change after the special forces have already started the mission? without motor vehicles, their movement speed is low enough that a change of target location is very likely, and without radio or internet, there's no way to tell them about the change.

either A) without the enemy realizing the mission was ever conducted,

These types of missions are mostly deep reconaissance missions. But Merlin already has good reconaissance, and it will take special forces so long to travel back to friendly territory, that the intelligence may not be especially valuable by the time they arrive home. People who remain in place long-term with a civilian cover, and smuggle out messages with long time delays are called 'spies', not 'special forces'

or B) complete the mission faster than the enemy can react.

Again, without radio or motorized transport, the enemy will always have faster internal movement rates and faster internal communication times. The enemy has semaphore stations, which aren't available to an infiltrator, and couriers, who only have to travel short, specific distances, before handing the message off to a well-rested replacement. Thus, it will be very hard to escape the response perimeter before the enemy can form a circle around you. With Radio and motor vehicles, both sides are traveling and communicating at roughly the same speed, and the major factor is how long it takes the enemy to get organized once they hear the news.

4. escape to a designated extraction point, and depart,


the problem with designated extraction points is they can change in the middle of a mission, whenever something goes wrong. Without radio, there's no way to communicate with your rescuers to change the rendezvous point.

either A. Without the enemy detecting them as they leave,
again, if you wear civilian clothes, or sneak through jungles and mountains, this is possible. It just takes forever, because you won't be met by a motor vehicle after the first ten miles.

or B. using special transport the enemy is unable to interfere with.

No helicopters or submarines to escape to. Sea superiority might count, but you'll still need to reach a rowboat and row beyond the reach of the local guns.



Looking over the list, the few things which ARE possible with current safehold technology are:

2B: Special training which will allow them to sneak in without being detected at all.

3A: without the enemy realizing the mission was ever conducted,

4A. Without the enemy detecting them as they leave,

Unit which have those three capabilities, and nothing else, are called 'scouts', not 'Special Forces'. And Charis already has scouts. And since they'll be walking or riding, they'll need to be fairly short-range scouts to do anything useful.


However, if you ALSO assume that all such operations will be conducted within a few days travel of your own conventional forces, and that there will be an entire front you can safely run towards to escape, a few more options become available:

2A) special transports which will deliver them faster than the enemy can react to detecting them,

3B) complete the mission faster than the enemy can react.

Horses aren't really 'special' transports, but if you have the best horses available, you can accomplish a lot, as long as you map out your journey so that your mission is finished before the horses show signs of exhaustion.

To make it work, you need to be facing a relatively slow moving enemy, and you need a clear line of retreat back to your own side, which they can't block before you make use of it. Then you need to burn every semaphore station you find, so that they'll know where you were last, but not where you're going next.

However, you still won't have day-to-day intelligence before you leave, and you won't be targeting a small, specific time and place: Your mission will be scouting and general destruction.

Forces who meet that description are called "Cavalry", not "Special Forces".


To sum up: The only person on safehold who has all the resources neccessary to conduct special forces missions is Merlin himself.. And he's already conducting special forces missions.

Krenn wrote:

biochem wrote:When is Merlin going to introduce the concept of Special Forces to Charis? He is aware of the advantages of an elite group of warriors who can strike deep into enemy territory, destroy their objective and then disappear into the night. After all as Merlin is rapidly discovering, he can't do everything himself.

There are very good reasons why special forces, as we now know them, did not exist until WWII, with reliable, commonly available, aerial reconaissance, motor vehicles and radios.

in general, a modern Special Force has to conduct the following actions, in the following order:


1. define a specific time and place where a small-scale operation needs to be done.

2. Arrive at that location, using either
A) special transports which will deliver them faster than the enemy can react to detecting them, or
B) Special training which will allow them to sneak in without being detected at all.

3. Perform the mission, at the correct time and place, either
A) without the enemy realizing the mission was ever conducted, or
B) complete the mission faster than the enemy can react.

4. escape to a designated extraction point, and depart, either
A. Without the enemy detecting them as they leave, or
B. using special transport the enemy is unable to interfere with.


Without radio or motor transport, those sets of instructions are very difficult to accomplish. taking them one by one:

1. define a specific time and place where a small-scale operation needs to be done.

This requires reliable, day-to-day intelligence of your target areas, with minimal data lag. By WWII, we had spies with radios, and Aerial reconaissance. In Safehold, only Saijin Merlin can supply that intelligence.

but do you really want to risk revealing Saijin Merlin's powers, by telling SF troopers, who are statistically the most likely people to be captured?

2. Arrive at that location, using either
A) special transports which will deliver them faster than the enemy can react to detecting them,

'Special" transports usually means helicopters, paratrooper cargo planes, or submarines, all of which are vehicles not normally available to transport regular troops. Safehold has no such transports: ships and horses are assigned to the normal troops on a routine basis, and nothing else exists which is faster or sneakier. Recon Skimmers can't be revealed for this purpose.

or B) Special training which will allow them to sneak in without being detected at all.

This is theoretically possible. You can certainly dress troops in civilian clothes and teach them to mimic dialects, or infiltrate through jungles or mountains the enemy doesn't believe can be crossed.

3. Perform the mission, at the correct time and place,

the problem here is, what if the correct time and place change after the special forces have already started the mission? without motor vehicles, their movement speed is low enough that a change of target location is very likely, and without radio or internet, there's no way to tell them about the change.

either A) without the enemy realizing the mission was ever conducted,

These types of missions are mostly deep reconaissance missions. But Merlin already has good reconaissance, and it will take special forces so long to travel back to friendly territory, that the intelligence may not be especially valuable by the time they arrive home. People who remain in place long-term with a civilian cover, and smuggle out messages with long time delays are called 'spies', not 'special forces'

or B) complete the mission faster than the enemy can react.

Again, without radio or motorized transport, the enemy will always have faster internal movement rates and faster internal communication times. The enemy has semaphore stations, which aren't available to an infiltrator, and couriers, who only have to travel short, specific distances, before handing the message off to a well-rested replacement. Thus, it will be very hard to escape the response perimeter before the enemy can form a circle around you. With Radio and motor vehicles, both sides are traveling and communicating at roughly the same speed, and the major factor is how long it takes the enemy to get organized once they hear the news.

4. escape to a designated extraction point, and depart,


the problem with designated extraction points is they can change in the middle of a mission, whenever something goes wrong. Without radio, there's no way to communicate with your rescuers to change the rendezvous point.

either A. Without the enemy detecting them as they leave,
again, if you wear civilian clothes, or sneak through jungles and mountains, this is possible. It just takes forever, because you won't be met by a motor vehicle after the first ten miles.

or B. using special transport the enemy is unable to interfere with.

No helicopters or submarines to escape to. Sea superiority might count, but you'll still need to reach a rowboat and row beyond the reach of the local guns.



Looking over the list, the few things which ARE possible with current safehold technology are:

2B: Special training which will allow them to sneak in without being detected at all.

3A: without the enemy realizing the mission was ever conducted,

4A. Without the enemy detecting them as they leave,

Unit which have those three capabilities, and nothing else, are called 'scouts', not 'Special Forces'. And Charis already has scouts. And since they'll be walking or riding, they'll need to be fairly short-range scouts to do anything useful.


However, if you ALSO assume that all such operations will be conducted within a few days travel of your own conventional forces, and that there will be an entire front you can safely run towards to escape, a few more options become available:

2A) special transports which will deliver them faster than the enemy can react to detecting them,

3B) complete the mission faster than the enemy can react.

Horses aren't really 'special' transports, but if you have the best horses available, you can accomplish a lot, as long as you map out your journey so that your mission is finished before the horses show signs of exhaustion.

To make it work, you need to be facing a relatively slow moving enemy, and you need a clear line of retreat back to your own side, which they can't block before you make use of it. Then you need to burn every semaphore station you find, so that they'll know where you were last, but not where you're going next.

However, you still won't have day-to-day intelligence before you leave, and you won't be targeting a small, specific time and place: Your mission will be scouting and general destruction.

Forces who meet that description are called "Cavalry", not "Special Forces".


To sum up: The only person on safehold who has all the resources neccessary to conduct special forces missions is Merlin himself.. And he's already conducting special forces missions.

An excellent summation. Thank you!

runsforcelery wrote:

Krenn wrote:There are very good reasons why special forces, as we now know them, did not exist until WWII, with reliable, commonly available, aerial reconaissance, motor vehicles and radios.

in general, a modern Special Force has to conduct the following actions, in the following order:


1. define a specific time and place where a small-scale operation needs to be done.

2. Arrive at that location, using either
A) special transports which will deliver them faster than the enemy can react to detecting them, or
B) Special training which will allow them to sneak in without being detected at all.

3. Perform the mission, at the correct time and place, either
A) without the enemy realizing the mission was ever conducted, or
B) complete the mission faster than the enemy can react.

4. escape to a designated extraction point, and depart, either
A. Without the enemy detecting them as they leave, or
B. using special transport the enemy is unable to interfere with.


Without radio or motor transport, those sets of instructions are very difficult to accomplish. taking them one by one:

1. define a specific time and place where a small-scale operation needs to be done.

This requires reliable, day-to-day intelligence of your target areas, with minimal data lag. By WWII, we had spies with radios, and Aerial reconaissance. In Safehold, only Saijin Merlin can supply that intelligence.

but do you really want to risk revealing Saijin Merlin's powers, by telling SF troopers, who are statistically the most likely people to be captured?

2. Arrive at that location, using either
A) special transports which will deliver them faster than the enemy can react to detecting them,

'Special" transports usually means helicopters, paratrooper cargo planes, or submarines, all of which are vehicles not normally available to transport regular troops. Safehold has no such transports: ships and horses are assigned to the normal troops on a routine basis, and nothing else exists which is faster or sneakier. Recon Skimmers can't be revealed for this purpose.

or B) Special training which will allow them to sneak in without being detected at all.

This is theoretically possible. You can certainly dress troops in civilian clothes and teach them to mimic dialects, or infiltrate through jungles or mountains the enemy doesn't believe can be crossed.

3. Perform the mission, at the correct time and place,

the problem here is, what if the correct time and place change after the special forces have already started the mission? without motor vehicles, their movement speed is low enough that a change of target location is very likely, and without radio or internet, there's no way to tell them about the change.

either A) without the enemy realizing the mission was ever conducted,

These types of missions are mostly deep reconaissance missions. But Merlin already has good reconaissance, and it will take special forces so long to travel back to friendly territory, that the intelligence may not be especially valuable by the time they arrive home. People who remain in place long-term with a civilian cover, and smuggle out messages with long time delays are called 'spies', not 'special forces'

or B) complete the mission faster than the enemy can react.

Again, without radio or motorized transport, the enemy will always have faster internal movement rates and faster internal communication times. The enemy has semaphore stations, which aren't available to an infiltrator, and couriers, who only have to travel short, specific distances, before handing the message off to a well-rested replacement. Thus, it will be very hard to escape the response perimeter before the enemy can form a circle around you. With Radio and motor vehicles, both sides are traveling and communicating at roughly the same speed, and the major factor is how long it takes the enemy to get organized once they hear the news.

4. escape to a designated extraction point, and depart,


the problem with designated extraction points is they can change in the middle of a mission, whenever something goes wrong. Without radio, there's no way to communicate with your rescuers to change the rendezvous point.

either A. Without the enemy detecting them as they leave,
again, if you wear civilian clothes, or sneak through jungles and mountains, this is possible. It just takes forever, because you won't be met by a motor vehicle after the first ten miles.

or B. using special transport the enemy is unable to interfere with.

No helicopters or submarines to escape to. Sea superiority might count, but you'll still need to reach a rowboat and row beyond the reach of the local guns.



Looking over the list, the few things which ARE possible with current safehold technology are:

2B: Special training which will allow them to sneak in without being detected at all.

3A: without the enemy realizing the mission was ever conducted,

4A. Without the enemy detecting them as they leave,

Unit which have those three capabilities, and nothing else, are called 'scouts', not 'Special Forces'. And Charis already has scouts. And since they'll be walking or riding, they'll need to be fairly short-range scouts to do anything useful.


However, if you ALSO assume that all such operations will be conducted within a few days travel of your own conventional forces, and that there will be an entire front you can safely run towards to escape, a few more options become available:

2A) special transports which will deliver them faster than the enemy can react to detecting them,

3B) complete the mission faster than the enemy can react.

Horses aren't really 'special' transports, but if you have the best horses available, you can accomplish a lot, as long as you map out your journey so that your mission is finished before the horses show signs of exhaustion.

To make it work, you need to be facing a relatively slow moving enemy, and you need a clear line of retreat back to your own side, which they can't block before you make use of it. Then you need to burn every semaphore station you find, so that they'll know where you were last, but not where you're going next.

However, you still won't have day-to-day intelligence before you leave, and you won't be targeting a small, specific time and place: Your mission will be scouting and general destruction.

Forces who meet that description are called "Cavalry", not "Special Forces".


To sum up: The only person on safehold who has all the resources neccessary to conduct special forces missions is Merlin himself.. And he's already conducting special forces missions.

An excellent summation. Thank you!

Have seen this topic a couple of times before and always had the above thoughts but could never be bothered to write it all out. Now that you've done all that work, I might add a couple of points which i think you missed.

Your above points are all things you certainly require for special forces to be viable. The additional points I make below are more contentious and some may make the case that the aren't absolutely necessary but I think that without these capabilities the utility of special forces will be extremely limited.

First of all, you have already addressed tactical mobility which I agree is necessary for special forces. However, I believe that strategic mobility is also critical as the nature of special forces means their objectives might be anywhere in your theatre and the time-window for that objective may be narrow. You can't have special forces everywhere 'just in case' so you need to be able to get them into the vicinity of their objective. If the scale of your war is global (as in Safehold) then the utility of special forces is going to be highly limited unless you have strategic mobility at least on par with early C20th earth.

Secondly, you need require certain equipment for most missions which will involve engaging the enemy. Surprise can be a devastating advantage. But it often wouldn't be enough of an advantage if you are limited to sword, bows, fire, even current Safehold-tech grenades and muskets as weapons. The nature of special forces missions means they are frequently massively outnumbered and often attacking prepared positions/fortifications. No matter how good you are with them, swords, bows fire etc are relatively slow so even with totalsuprise on your side you can't take on that high odds and expect to win. For special forces to be successful, they need to have equipment which lets them fully use that surprise. So far as I can see, that means automatic weaponry and reliable, stable expolosives with reliable detonators. Some kind of tactical comms gear would also be useful for co-ordination but I can see a small team being successful even without it. Of course, special forces would still work without this equipment, but they would have to be much less ambitious in picking targets/objectives and would therefore obviously be of less importance.

Anyone who wants to know more about the concept of special forces woul do well to look at 'The greatest raid of all', aka Operation Chariot. Lieutenant-Colonel Augustus Charles Newman pretty much invented special forces doctrine for this operation, much of which is still relevant today.

Just to reiterate, I think Krenn's list i great and covers the things you need for special forces to be possible, my additions just cover a couple of things they also need to really work like they do today.

JimHacker wrote:

runsforcelery wrote:
Have seen this topic a couple of times before and always had the above thoughts but could never be bothered to write it all out. Now that you've done all that work, I might add a couple of points which i think you missed.

Your above points are all things you certainly require for special forces to be viable. The additional points I make below are more contentious and some may make the case that the aren't absolutely necessary but I think that without these capabilities the utility of special forces will be extremely limited.

First of all, you have already addressed tactical mobility which I agree is necessary for special forces. However, I believe that strategic mobility is also critical as the nature of special forces means their objectives might be anywhere in your theatre and the time-window for that objective may be narrow. You can't have special forces everywhere 'just in case' so you need to be able to get them into the vicinity of their objective. If the scale of your war is global (as in Safehold) then the utility of special forces is going to be highly limited unless you have strategic mobility at least on par with early C20th earth.

Secondly, you need require certain equipment for most missions which will involve engaging the enemy. Surprise can be a devastating advantage. But it often wouldn't be enough of an advantage if you are limited to sword, bows, fire, even current Safehold-tech grenades and muskets as weapons. The nature of special forces missions means they are frequently massively outnumbered and often attacking prepared positions/fortifications. No matter how good you are with them, swords, bows fire etc are relatively slow so even with totalsuprise on your side you can't take on that high odds and expect to win. For special forces to be successful, they need to have equipment which lets them fully use that surprise. So far as I can see, that means automatic weaponry and reliable, stable expolosives with reliable detonators. Some kind of tactical comms gear would also be useful for co-ordination but I can see a small team being successful even without it. Of course, special forces would still work without this equipment, but they would have to be much less ambitious in picking targets/objectives and would therefore obviously be of less importance.

Anyone who wants to know more about the concept of special forces woul do well to look at 'The greatest raid of all', aka Operation Chariot. Lieutenant-Colonel Augustus Charles Newman pretty much invented special forces doctrine for this operation, much of which is still relevant today.

Just to reiterate, I think Krenn's list i great and covers the things you need for special forces to be possible, my additions just cover a couple of things they also need to really work like they do today.

You're right that strategic mobility is highly useful, but that's mainly because in the modern world, the targets worth using special forces against are just so spread out. When SF was first founded, they were originally used in small, specific theatres: North Africa, the Mediterranean, the Philippines, etc. They didn't need strategic mobility in those instances, because they were fighting a world war, and and they had all the targets they could ask for within local reach. Today, our targets are more spread out, so we have to travel farther.

You don't HAVE to have strategic mobility, but it does make maintaining special forces more economical in peace time if it's available.

As for firepower; again, you're right. Machine guns, claymores, and other toys give special forces significantly more freedom to plan ambushes or pin responding forces while they retreat. Which means they can be more ambitious in what targets they take on.

However, the tradition of small-scale raids still existed with Napoleonic era weapons, you just needed more men in each unit to lay down the level of fire you needed.

If special forces had everything BUT strategic mobility and modern firepower, they could still perform enough specialty missions to make them worthwhile, it would just take more manpower and planning.

Hostage rescue, targeted assassination, asset extraction, cutting lines of communication, deep reconnaissance, and precision sabotage would all be doable: you'd just need to limit yourself to missions within 10-days travel of your base, and instead of two men with machineguns and claymores covering the probable avenue of enemy response, you'd need 10 men with revolvers, sharps rifles, and barrels of gunpowder. And an enemy with a narrow response lane and more distance to travel.

What you listed would help a lot, but i think my list is the minimum necessary to make it work in the current safe hold environment. And i think we both agree, that either way, Merlin is the only person currently equipped to conduct these operations, whether he uses modern firepower or not.

Would Hecktors mission been better acheived by a specail force spec team?

That is some marines who are capable of handling small craft and silent killing?

Hi guys

I agree that "Special Forces" are not a viable option on Safehold at this time.

However, Nynian has already (according to MTAT text evidence) caused the successful assassination of five vicars without getting caught.

?? Could she use her existing demonstrated skills as a really really sneaky person to cause some damage behind enemy lines ??

These strikes could not be timed with any accuracy, but maybe she COULD be told of targets (people or installations) by either Merlin (or his alter ego) that would help further the Charisian/Siddarmarkian cause..

After all's said and done, she's proven that her organization is very very effective - - -

?? Comments ??

R
.

Alistair wrote:Would Hecktors mission been better acheived by a specail force spec team?

That is some marines who are capable of handling small craft and silent killing?

Merlins portion of the mission would have been perfect for a special forces team. However, as I said, functionally, Merlin IS a special forces team.

Hecktor's assignment was the 'retrieval' component of the mission, and is a fairly standard cavalry, scout, or light watercraft mission.

You might attach a specialized light watercraft unit directly to a special forces unit so they can operate most effectively, but they're still two different things, and Safehold doesn't have special forces units.

kbus888 wrote:Hi guys

I agree that "Special Forces" are not a viable option on Safehold at this time.

However, Nynian has already (according to MTAT text evidence) caused the successful assassination of five vicars without getting caught.

?? Could she use her existing demonstrated skills as a really really sneaky person to cause some damage behind enemy lines ??

These strikes could not be timed with any accuracy, but maybe she COULD be told of targets (people or installations) by either Merlin (or his alter ego) that would help further the Charisian/Siddarmarkian cause..

Those are called 'saboteurs'. they are certainly a feasible weapon in this type of war. I have no stance or preference on whether or not the Charisian Empire should employ saboteurs as a matter of policy.