What Became of the [Former] Silesian Confederacy worlds?

Emo Otaku wrote:I don't think its a question of diplomatic/dynastic marrigage more if a member of the Royal Family falls for a member of the Andermani Royal Family

The poster I replied to was talking specifically about a diplomatic marriage.

jchilds wrote:

Michael Everett wrote:Manticore recognises foreign titles.

Helen Zilwicki was noted to be a princess on her Middy cruise. Abigail Hearns (aka Miss Owens) was also rated as such, being a Steadholders daughter.

Therefore, any member of a Non-Manticoran royal house would be recognised by Manticore as Nobility, and thus would not be eligable to marry the Heir.

Maybe, maybe not.

Manticore may officially (and legally) recognize foreign titles and honors, sure. Whether this is by being signatory to some interstellar convention, or via individual bilateral treaties (or possibly both) I'm not sure. But if the Manticoran Constitution specifically defines a "commoner" as being based solely on ONLY Manticoran titles for marriage purposes then you should be able to have it both ways.

Otherwise, you can run into situations in interstellar politics where the semantics could really cause problems. For example, you have an heir but no spare and the current state of interstellar affairs means a diplomatic marriage is the only viable option. If one of the potential allies has an overt monarchy/aristocracy while the other has a "Most Beloved Leader" who is the great great grandson of the "Perpetual and Revered President" but isn't technically "nobility", well that could be a bad thing.

And can be quite simply stated either way. Of course, the royal family dosen't do arranged marriages for it's members. It is possible that some noble families might. One example might be the young clan. Inbreeding might account for the general lack of intellegence.

"The heir to the throne cannot marry a member of the manticoran nobility." would mean that the heir to the throne could marry another star nations nobility.

"The heir to the throne cannot marry any member of any noble family." would mean that the heir to the throne could not marry another star nations nobility.

Of course, only the MWW knows for sure.

Hi All

I was looking at the Honorverse glossary on wikispaces and came across the chart/map of Silesia.

Is there a list of which systems became part of the AE and which became part of the SEM?


T&R
GJS

George J. Smith wrote:Is there a list of which systems became part of the AE and which became part of the SEM?

If there is, it's unpublished. Even the Companion in House of Steel limits itself to an overall enumeration:

The Star Empire of Manticore is a constitutional monarchy comprising twenty-one member star systems, thirty-four protectorate star systems, and a wormhole junction with seven mapped termini.

We know that Manticore holds a protectorate over the Endicott system (Masada), and may have similar arrangements with respect to some systems formerly held by Haven that have not yet demonstrated competency to "graduate" to self-rule with Manticore providing some defense under a treaty.

That means there are at most 33 former Silesian Confederacy systems under Manticoran rule. Based on the certain remarks made (in ART if memory serves) the Manticoran portion of Silesia must be on the galactic "northeast", away from the pre-existing Andermani territory. but that's about all we know about it.

Silesia is noted as being the 34 however whether that is 33 plus Marsh or 34 plus Marsh one doesn't know. Always assumed it was the latter.

The Masadan home world, one assumed would be ordered under Grayson and as Grayson is not part of the SEM, it would not either. Rather an extension under the GA.

It is assumed that pirates still are running around hence the provisions of pursuit, with the Andie's. Also some didn't like being taken over and the pirate populace swelled. However a single Roland can likely protect an entire system from Pirates so make what you will of that.

Sag A B C and Nike plus Avalon and Wolfhounds. It likely is pretty secure.

Some of us want to setup, beyond our commercial intetrests, building slips, stations, and training facilities dirtside and in orbit. 34 odd such stations could be developed used for stripping down the 1000+ decommissioned ships plus all the old Silesian ones and reutilizing the spare parts ... Add in the 3-400 captured SL ships and the whole protectorate can become an economic powerhouse.

Red Cohort LAC wants to setup a Highlander 2 system LAC production Facility taking over from the ever unpopular Tower Enterprise. Adding a commercial Fast Q Freighter facility. Using the stripped parts. However it is a tough sell.

One supposes Mycroft Enterprises wouldn't mind setting up shop for their namesake system.

Presumably the small to medium slips that are present could be retooled for new DD CL CA and LAC production. Plus work on the LERM ERM and Mk41 missile production. Although an improved Cataphract could be made for use by SL future Allies.

As to your question. Hopefully a lot is or soon will be going on in Silesia.

TheMonster wrote:

George J. Smith wrote:Is there a list of which systems became part of the AE and which became part of the SEM?

If there is, it's unpublished. Even the Companion in House of Steel limits itself to an overall enumeration:

The Star Empire of Manticore is a constitutional monarchy comprising twenty-one member star systems, thirty-four protectorate star systems, and a wormhole junction with seven mapped termini.

We know that Manticore holds a protectorate over the Endicott system (Masada), and may have similar arrangements with respect to some systems formerly held by Haven that have not yet demonstrated competency to "graduate" to self-rule with Manticore providing some defense under a treaty.

That means there are at most 33 former Silesian Confederacy systems under Manticoran rule. Based on the certain remarks made (in ART if memory serves) the Manticoran portion of Silesia must be on the galactic "northeast", away from the pre-existing Andermani territory. but that's about all we know about it.

If you look at the overall map of the SEM in HOS and look at the Silesia section of the map, you will notice the tree dots real close to each other in the upper part, that is probably Chalice Cluster from HAE, and if you look at the Silesia map in HAE the SEM got the Terrence, Hillman, Saginaw sectors intact and about half the Capital sector including the former capital itself.

Lord Skimper wrote:Silesia is noted as being the 34 however whether that is 33 plus Marsh or 34 plus Marsh one doesn't know. Always assumed it was the latter.

As far as I known Marsh is still an independent system that hasn't asked to join the Star Kingdom of Manticore. Yes they allowed Manticore to establish a minor fleet base there to support anti-piracy patrol of the Silesian systems and surrounding area.

So it wouldn't be counted at all because it's not a member or a protectorate.

Jonathan_S wrote:As far as I known Marsh is still and independent system that hasn't asked to join the Star Kingdom of Manticore. Yes they allowed Manticore to establish a minor fleet base there to support anti-piracy patrol of the Silesian systems and surrounding area.

So it wouldn't be counted at all because it's not a member or a protectorate.

The Republic of Sidemore (Marsh system) is an independent nation that has a treaty with Manticore allowing for that base. The Andermani Empire recognizes both the continued independence of the Republic and that treaty.

Neither empire has expressed any wish to annex the Marsh system in any way. In theory, the Andermani position might be subject to change in the future, were there any reason to believe that Manticore would abuse its basing rights against the Andermani in some way, but it's difficult to imagine Elizabeth or any future monarch allowing anything of the sort to happen, even if somehow another High Ridge got a majority in the Lords.

saber964 wrote:If you look at the overall map of the SEM in HOS and look at the Silesia section of the map, you will notice the tree dots real close to each other in the upper part, that is probably Chalice Cluster from HAE, and if you look at the Silesia map in HAE the SEM got the Terrence, Hillman, Saginaw sectors intact and about half the Capital sector including the former capital itself.

This sounds plausible, but where did you get that information?

SWM wrote:

saber964 wrote:If you look at the overall map of the SEM in HOS and look at the Silesia section of the map, you will notice the three dots real close to each other in the upper part, that is probably Chalice Cluster from HAE, and if you look at the Silesia map in HAE the SEM got the Terrence, Hillman, Saginaw sectors intact and about half the Capital sector including the former capital itself.

This sounds plausible, but where did you get that information?

It's mostly conjecture and speculation but its good speculation and conjecture.