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Gravity?

This fascinating series is a combination of historical seafaring, swashbuckling adventure, and high technological science-fiction. Join us in a discussion!
Re: Gravity?
Post by SWM   » Fri May 04, 2012 9:27 pm

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kbus888 wrote:Hi SWM

However, the advanced knowledge we now have did not stop the formulation of Newton's laws.

Incomplete theoretical knowledge does not always stop innovation.

Just say'n

R

SWM wrote:
<snip>

The "speed of gravity" can be derived from the Theory of General Relativity, and experiments support it. The effects of gravity tavel at the speed of light. The last thing needed to confirm it would be the detection of gravitational radiation.

No, of course it didn't. Newtonian gravity works perfectly well for all but extreme conditions. I was merely speaking to the statement that we haven't determined the speed of gravity. As far as Safehold is concerned, the speed of gravity and Relativity is irrelevant for now.

And to get things back on track, I agree that it is perfectly plausible to determine the inverse square law of gravity without denying that gravity is a divine gift. And that can be done without invoking a Copernican cosmology.
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Re: Gravity?
Post by warchild   » Sat May 05, 2012 12:03 am

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I guess I wasn’t really clear with what I was thinking or asking about, happens a lot when I type. I agree with y'all that gravity could still be considered a "divine gift" on Safehold even when they know how to measure it. More though I was more wondering if with the theory of gravity did it include the beginnings of calculus? As knowing something falls at a rate of 9.8m/s^2 while useful information is not much by its self. Or if calcuus is one of the proscribed maths, making it near impossible to ever be published.
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Re: Gravity?
Post by warchild   » Sat May 05, 2012 12:13 am

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Also if they can get the inverse square law for gravity approved then it can also be applied to sound, light, and magnetism. Which might not ma much help right away, will be helpful once they are able to use electricity and or the air communications.
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Re: Gravity?
Post by SWM   » Mon May 07, 2012 9:26 am

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warchild wrote:I guess I wasn’t really clear with what I was thinking or asking about, happens a lot when I type. I agree with y'all that gravity could still be considered a "divine gift" on Safehold even when they know how to measure it. More though I was more wondering if with the theory of gravity did it include the beginnings of calculus? As knowing something falls at a rate of 9.8m/s^2 while useful information is not much by its self. Or if calcuus is one of the proscribed maths, making it near impossible to ever be published.

Yes, Newton's Principia did include elements of calculus, though it predates the paper in which Newton formally describes infinitesimal calculus.
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Re: Gravity?
Post by RandomGraysuit   » Mon May 07, 2012 12:06 pm

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warchild wrote:I guess I wasn’t really clear with what I was thinking or asking about, happens a lot when I type. I agree with y'all that gravity could still be considered a "divine gift" on Safehold even when they know how to measure it. More though I was more wondering if with the theory of gravity did it include the beginnings of calculus? As knowing something falls at a rate of 9.8m/s^2 while useful information is not much by its self. Or if calcuus is one of the proscribed maths, making it near impossible to ever be published.
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Re: Gravity?
Post by McGuiness   » Mon May 07, 2012 5:11 pm

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SWM wrote:
warchild wrote:I guess I wasn’t really clear with what I was thinking or asking about, happens a lot when I type. I agree with y'all that gravity could still be considered a "divine gift" on Safehold even when they know how to measure it. More though I was more wondering if with the theory of gravity did it include the beginnings of calculus? As knowing something falls at a rate of 9.8m/s^2 while useful information is not much by its self. Or if calculus is one of the proscribed maths, making it near impossible to ever be published.

Yes, Newton's Principia did include elements of calculus, though it predates the paper in which Newton formally describes infinitesimal calculus.
Quoting OAR "they'd also eliminated any memory of Arabic numerals, or algebra, in a move calculated to emasculate any development of advanced mathematics."

Calculus isn't proscribed, nor is math in any form. It's just awfully difficult to invent using Roman numerals! We weren't told which of Newton's works Merlin handed over, but since you have to learn to run before you can walk, it had to include algebra, then perhaps the Principia and Newton's later descriptions of infitesimal calculus. (Although his nomenclature isn't what we use.)

So algebra will be "discovered," which is enough to explain gravity and arrive at Kepler's laws, which will blow the Ptolemaic theory that Safehold is the center of the universe sky-high if there are any other visible planets in the Safehold system. That will prove that the Writ is wrong, but since only a few science types will understand this at first, it's unlikely to have a huge impact for a while.

After all, here on earth the Catholic church managed to squash that knowledge for a very long time. Ironically they paid for much of the research so they knew rather quickly what to ban. The CoC is highly unlikely to do the same on Safehold. [G]

"Oh bother", said Pooh as he glanced through the airlock window at the helmet he'd forgotten to wear.
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Re: Gravity?
Post by jchilds   » Fri May 11, 2012 7:01 am

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Clearly, they need to gather some empirical data by conducting experiments for the CoGA.

Something along the lines of : If 3 members of the Group of 4 are standing at the base of a tall tower and you drop cannonballs of wolf, kraken and doomwhale size on them simultaneously, who gets hit first?

;)
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Re: Gravity?
Post by McGuiness   » Fri May 11, 2012 7:25 am

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jchilds wrote:Clearly, they need to gather some empirical data by conducting experiments for the CoGA.

Something along the lines of : If 3 members of the Group of 4 are standing at the base of a tall tower and you drop cannonballs of wolf, kraken and doomwhale size on them simultaneously, who gets hit first?

;)
Through the miracle of gravity given us by the Archangel Langhorne, each cannonball struck a vicar at precisely the same time, though the ball of doomwhale size that fell on Vicar Zhaspyr Clyntahn, the Grand Inquisitor, was noted to have done considerably more damage to his corpse, thus proving the difference between velocity and momentum... ;)

"Oh bother", said Pooh as he glanced through the airlock window at the helmet he'd forgotten to wear.
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Re: Gravity?
Post by cralkhi   » Thu Jan 21, 2016 12:40 am

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McGuiness wrote:After all, here on earth the Catholic church managed to squash that knowledge for a very long time.


That's not really accurate, IIRC - all they required was that it be presented as a hypothesis rather than fact.

(And even that was only because of the whole Galileo issue, which was more political than theological, 70 years after Copernicus.)
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Re: Gravity?
Post by evilauthor   » Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:07 am

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Why are you all discussing calculus and gravity like it's something Charis has yet to discover when Charis has been doing trajectory calculations for cannon shot since book TWO?

AFAICT, Charis has already "discovered" Newtonian math when Merlin handed over Newton's works to Maklyn. But even before that, Maklyn was already well on the road to figuring it out for himself before being interrupted by arson.
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