Steam

Alistair wrote:

MGP wrote:Just a thought, but, mechanically, diesel engines are not that much different from steam engines. Reciprocating pistons, compression and rotation. The major difference is combustion outside of the engine in the case of steam, as opposed to internal combustion caused by compression in the case of diesel.

I certainly think it might be possible to build a steam driven armoued vechile/tank without violating the prescriptions.

(At least possible with Charis' Intendent!)

Heh.


Spent six years in tanks, and I know steam. You couldn't get me within a mile of a steam powered tank. While conceptually it might sound good, you have to remember, we are talking about steam. You put a boiler inside a big metal box, with tiny access hatches, its just a mater of time before you have a leak, or worse, a boiler explosion that is guaranteed to cause horrible maiming on a regular basis.

I'd rather stand buck naked in front of a line of Charisian Marines waiting for the Fire command than get in one of those!

One thing y'all are forgetting is the human element in this push for internal combustion engine(ICE). There are going to be a lot of people who baulk at the idea of using just a simple steam engine. Not even because they think it is inherently evil (though there will be some who will)but just because they don't understand it. So if you push the ICE to fast you will run the huge risk of alienating possibly large number people. Its probably going to happen no matter what but if you bring out the ICE a few short years after you bring out the steam engine you will alienate not just those who don't just understand it but also their families which has a wider reach then a individual. Remember this is a society that just 5 short years ago believed that all change was essentially evil. Charis its self might have been different but think of the rest of the Empire....

Panther Al wrote:

Alistair wrote:

MGP wrote:Just a thought, but, mechanically, diesel engines are not that much different from steam engines. Reciprocating pistons, compression and rotation. The major difference is combustion outside of the engine in the case of steam, as opposed to internal combustion caused by compression in the case of diesel.

I certainly think it might be possible to build a steam driven armoued vechile/tank without violating the prescriptions.

(At least possible with Charis' Intendent!)

Heh.


Spent six years in tanks, and I know steam. You couldn't get me within a mile of a steam powered tank. While conceptually it might sound good, you have to remember, we are talking about steam. You put a boiler inside a big metal box, with tiny access hatches, its just a mater of time before you have a leak, or worse, a boiler explosion that is guaranteed to cause horrible maiming on a regular basis.

I'd rather stand buck naked in front of a line of Charisian Marines waiting for the Fire command than get in one of those!

The "shock and awe" value of getting steam driven vechiles in action though would be worthwhile if it can be acheived.

In stead of a tank as we know it why not some sort of armoued steam tractor or car that is open air.

I'm sure if there is a will there is a way!

How about steam powered machine guns or millitarusess? ( if spelt right. Probably extremely impractical at first, but would give a huge rate of fire increase. add with trenches and the Coga armys old style tactics, and should be charisian walkovers every time.

There was a Mythbusters episode on steam powered machine guns. While they were able to get a working prototype that could potentially kill, the thing was massive and took a lot of time to set up and build up enough pressure. Not very practical on a battlefield. Even though it is the ultimate Seam Punk weapon, I can't see steam propelled projectiles ever replacing gunpowder weapons.

Spacekiwi wrote:How about steam powered machine guns or millitarusess? ( if spelt right. Probably extremely impractical at first, but would give a huge rate of fire increase. add with trenches and the Coga armys old style tactics, and should be charisian walkovers every time.

Rook wrote:There was a Mythbusters episode on steam powered machine guns. While they were able to get a working prototype that could potentially kill, the thing was massive and took a lot of time to set up and build up enough pressure. Not very practical on a battlefield. Even though it is the ultimate Seam Punk weapon, I can't see steam propelled projectiles ever replacing gunpowder weapons.

Well, all due credit to Mythbusters but just because they couldn't get an efficient one doesn't mean that it couldn't be done. I like the show but I can't regard it as the end-all, be-all final word on much of anything. They are too constrained by time/budget to develop *anything* into a fully-realized system, and their way of doing anything for the show means that they're only interested in a working prototype - at most.

A steam powered stand-alone anything is probably going to be big/bulky/heavy and *very* slow to start-up comparative to a modern internal combustion engine.

For maritime operations, where the steam would theoretically already be there to power the screws/paddles, 'normal prep time' would effectively be zero. For the Army, unless it were part of a steam powered vehicle it would seem difficult to implement steam-guns effectively.

Though I freely admit that it would be kind of cool if it did show up. But I doubt that it will, as the MWW seems to be sort of going with things that actually existed - and demonstrably worked - WRT 'native' Imperial Army/Navy weapons development path.

Spacekiwi wrote:How about steam powered machine guns or millitarusess? ( if spelt right. Probably extremely impractical at first, but would give a huge rate of fire increase. add with trenches and the Coga armys old style tactics, and should be charisian walkovers every time.

I'm not positive, but didn't someone
invent a "Gatling gun" (in the
mid-19th century), that did not
depend on anything but muscle-power
or is that just another name for
a Montigny mitrailleuse of Belgian
design ??

R
.

Do you really want to link your weapons up to the same power source? And have that power source running everything else on board the ship?

I agree that you could quickly power a steam powered gun from the same boiler that is propelling the ship. But you are giving up all of your redundancy and a lot of your flexibility to do it. In the (very possible) event of a mechanical failure or battle damage, your ship is suddenly dead in the water with no way to defend itself.

Your guns' range is also limited to the amount of pressure available in the boiler. If you need more pressure, you're going to have to slow down or stop your ship in order to get it quickly. However, a gunpowder powered gun is independent of any other system and you just add more powder to increase your range. (at least until you reach the limit of your gun's capability)

But maritime applications are an aside. I understood the statement to be on a ground combat scenario, in which case my earlier argument still is valid.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying it is much less practical than gunpowder powered weapons.

piotr1600 wrote:-snip-

A steam powered stand-alone anything is probably going to be big/bulky/heavy and *very* slow to start-up comparative to a modern internal combustion engine.

For maritime operations, where the steam would theoretically already be there to power the screws/paddles, 'normal prep time' would effectively be zero. For the Army, unless it were part of a steam powered vehicle it would seem difficult to implement steam-guns effectively.

Though I freely admit that it would be kind of cool if it did show up. But I doubt that it will, as the MWW seems to be sort of going with things that actually existed - and demonstrably worked - WRT 'native' Imperial Army/Navy weapons development path.

Rook wrote:Do you really want to link your weapons up to the same power source? And have that power source running everything else on board the ship?

I agree that you could quickly power a steam powered gun from the same boiler that is propelling the ship. But you are giving up all of your redundancy and a lot of your flexibility to do it. In the (very possible) event of a mechanical failure or battle damage, your ship is suddenly dead in the water with no way to defend itself.

Your guns' range is also limited to the amount of pressure available in the boiler. If you need more pressure, you're going to have to slow down or stop your ship in order to get it quickly. However, a gunpowder powered gun is independent of any other system and you just add more powder to increase your range. (at least until you reach the limit of your gun's capability)

But maritime applications are an aside. I understood the statement to be on a ground combat scenario, in which case my earlier argument still is valid.

I'm not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying it is much less practical than gunpowder powered weapons.

piotr1600 wrote:-snip-

A steam powered stand-alone anything is probably going to be big/bulky/heavy and *very* slow to start-up comparative to a modern internal combustion engine.

For maritime operations, where the steam would theoretically already be there to power the screws/paddles, 'normal prep time' would effectively be zero. For the Army, unless it were part of a steam powered vehicle it would seem difficult to implement steam-guns effectively.

Though I freely admit that it would be kind of cool if it did show up. But I doubt that it will, as the MWW seems to be sort of going with things that actually existed - and demonstrably worked - WRT 'native' Imperial Army/Navy weapons development path.

Hey, no one ever said it was a likely possibility.... only a potential possiility. as for myself, its interesting to see the holes that others find in the idea. please keep going. :)

~

Using steam to propel a projectile like gun-powder forget it too high a pressure needed for a reasonable muzzle velocity. Hook a small steam engine up to a Gatling gun crank why bother make a Gardner gun and then upgrade to a maximum machine gun.
Why are all you SIFI gun-nuts fixed on the Gatling, more barrels, heavier, and cumbersome or the multirace even worse! the paths that the bolts follow are machined in a cylinder oodles of fun to machine.
So wicki the Gardner or check it out on you-tube. it uses simple easy to machine cams, and the Gardner is the direct ancestor of the maximum machine gun.