Who would make a good Honor Harrington in a Movie/TV role?

petercharters wrote:

Launian wrote: Why would you go "ick" when Midshipwoman Paveltic talks about her love life on screen? Or her sex life, for that matter? Yeah, she's supposed to look like a 12 years old, but if wichever actress gets casted actually fits that part of the character's description, I'm pretty sure there's going to be a line somewhere were it's explained that she isn't really just out of 6th grade. So, if that's cleared up, there's no need to make her grow up 10 years physically. If people can't get pass their gut reaction, that's their problem.

Um, no, that's not only their damn problem. A movie will ot be made just for artistic satisfaction or First Lord Weber's ego. It will be expected to be a success in its own right and those investing in it will not want to make a large monetary loss.

And that's exactly what will happen when the reviews start talking about how creepy it was to watch a twelve year old joking about her sex life. The more alert, better ones who actually don't tune out when technobabble comes on will make some comment about there being an explanation that she's really older, but that they can't get past the fact that [actressnamehere] is only 13.

It's hard to get people to use more than their eyes. Heck, look at the number of people who read/watched Twilight and don't find it phenomenally creepy that some hundred-year old dude is still hanging around in schools lusting after teenagers? If the actor had looked like he was, say, seventy or more, I suspect there would have been a much, much different reaction.

Ok, first, same thing's going to happen (the creepy comments) when Honor and Hamish start fooling around — specially with Hamish "betraying" Emily, and then the whole marriage thing and how they go over the sanctity of marriage. This is a sci-fi movie, so people have to get into their heads that their whole moral mindset is going to be diferent from ours. And it's not "technobabble" either; it's just the same as glasses, or those hearing devices people with hearing impediments use (don't know the name, sorry), something that improves quality of life.

Second, for us to ever get to see a Shadow of Saganami movie, there has to be a solid core of movie fans (people who has read the books can't make a movie a success, sadly), wich means that even if there's anything close to the kind of reaction you're suggesting (wich I find unlikely), it won't damage the profit that the movie will make. If anything like that happened on OBS, you might have a point, but as things are, it is meaningless.

And finally, can you exactly tell me where she makes a joke about her "sex life"? As far as I remember, the only thing she ever says about her love life is something about a certain boat bay boy noticing a "flat-chested girl". Now, unless you tell me that a girl with the looks of a 12 y.o. talking about her chest is immoral or somehow wrong, I don't see why that should curl anyone's hair. I know that it was a concern for most girls I knew when I was 12 y.o., so I don't see how it would be different 2000 years from now. Specially if said girl is actually quite a bit older but stil hindered by such "deficiency".

Anyways, I agree that an older looking girl could be casted for that role (if there's ever a movie with her on it), but I'd go for a 15-16 y.o. look instead.

petercharters wrote:I think trying to accurately portray the book description would be a bad idea. A non-blonde-bimbo look is good enough, I think.

As for age, I think the prolong issue is just going to complicate things; spending five to ten minutes every movie explaining why people look so young just takes time away from plot and dialog elsewhere, not to mention seeming really clumsy. It will also be instinctively hard for people to watch an eighteen year old command a starship and gain the crew's respect and devotion without it feeling false or like one of those manga series where the captain is seventy and the rest of the bridge crew are thirteen - I even had that problem in the last Star Trek movie (plus what the heck? They promoted a cadet/maybe midshipman [they hadn't graduated yet iirc] to captain and assigned them command of the Federation's flagship? How many 21 year olds have commanded the USS Nimitz or any other carrier?) and the actor looked well past eighteen, to be honest.

As for physicality, forget worrying too much about chest size or height or how asian her features are. The command presence is what will make the role and the film; gravitas is far more important than exact skin tone. Plot, timing and characterisation will make the movie a success, even if it fills the forum with "oh no! She was a C-cup, not a B-cup! She was only 5'11!!!!" There's lots of stuff that will have to be carefully adapted from the books.

I saw Honor Harrington's face today in an Oil of Olay commercial. The brown eyes stared into yoiur soul from a mature face that could have been 20 or a 120. She looked like the cover art from the books brought to life.

If I had a bazillion dollars to invest in the movies, Jada Plinket Smith would be QE III with Will Smith as Prince Justin. Whoopie Goldberg has to be Duchess Caitrin Winton-Henke (you're the Queen of Manticore! Act likie it). Sounded just like Guinan (You're the Captain! Start acting likie it).
Vanessa Williams as Queen Adrienne. Lawrence Fishbourne as Earl Gold Peak.

David James Elliot as Hamish Alexander with Michael Wewtherly as his brother. Although he's way to old, Chuck Norris would have been a great Andrew. Mark Harmon could probably pull it off now.

Horace Harkness, Bruce Campbell, who else? Scotty Tremaine, Ryan Cartwright (got killed in Bones as Mr.Vincent Nigel-Murray then showed up as Gary in Alphas)

Robin Williams as Admiral Courvoisier or High Admiral Wesley Mathews.

Tom Sellect has to be in there somewhere: Duke Cromarty? Howard Clinkscale?

Michael Caine as James MaGuiness (Alfred in Batman movies).

John Laroquette as Alfred Harrington.

There's more, but you get the drift.

walkssoftly wrote:

petercharters wrote:I think trying to accurately portray the book description would be a bad idea. A non-blonde-bimbo look is good enough, I think.

As for age, I think the prolong issue is just going to complicate things; spending five to ten minutes every movie explaining why people look so young just takes time away from plot and dialog elsewhere, not to mention seeming really clumsy. It will also be instinctively hard for people to watch an eighteen year old command a starship and gain the crew's respect and devotion without it feeling false or like one of those manga series where the captain is seventy and the rest of the bridge crew are thirteen - I even had that problem in the last Star Trek movie (plus what the heck? They promoted a cadet/maybe midshipman [they hadn't graduated yet iirc] to captain and assigned them command of the Federation's flagship? How many 21 year olds have commanded the USS Nimitz or any other carrier?) and the actor looked well past eighteen, to be honest.

As for physicality, forget worrying too much about chest size or height or how asian her features are. The command presence is what will make the role and the film; gravitas is far more important than exact skin tone. Plot, timing and characterisation will make the movie a success, even if it fills the forum with "oh no! She was a C-cup, not a B-cup! She was only 5'11!!!!" There's lots of stuff that will have to be carefully adapted from the books.

I saw Honor Harrington's face today in an Oil of Olay commercial. The brown eyes stared into yoiur soul from a mature face that could have been 20 or a 120. She looked like the cover art from the books brought to life.

If I had a bazillion dollars to invest in the movies, Jada Plinket Smith would be QE III with Will Smith as Prince Justin. Whoopie Goldberg has to be Duchess Caitrin Winton-Henke (you're the Queen of Manticore! Act likie it). Sounded just like Guinan (You're the Captain! Start acting likie it).
Vanessa Williams as Queen Adrienne. Lawrence Fishbourne as Earl Gold Peak.

David James Elliot as Hamish Alexander with Michael Wewtherly as his brother. Although he's way to old, Chuck Norris would have been a great Andrew. Mark Harmon could probably pull it off now.

Horace Harkness, Bruce Campbell, who else? Scotty Tremaine, Ryan Cartwright (got killed in Bones as Mr.Vincent Nigel-Murray then showed up as Gary in Alphas)

Robin Williams as Admiral Courvoisier or High Admiral Wesley Mathews.

Tom Sellect has to be in there somewhere: Duke Cromarty? Howard Clinkscale?

Michael Caine as James MaGuiness (Alfred in Batman movies).

John Laroquette as Alfred Harrington.

There's more, but you get the drift.

Your drift being that this is a one-shot movie deal. OBS only. You have actors in the series who are supposed to live to be several hundred years old and not look like mature adults until they are well past 40, and not look old until they are past 100.

Sir Michael Caine, as an example, is now 78. He won't last long enough to make it through the third book at the rate movies are made. John Laroquette is 64, Tom Selleck is 66...but you get my drift. Prolong has only a small part in this, but it does play a part. The massive scope of the series - even greater than Harry Potter - is a deciding factor in casting.

So too is the "bazillion dollar" cost of the cast, given the cost of the CGI work to be done. It is a budget-busting cast and this production company is not Sony or Fox (fools that they are for not making it). Treecats and space battles are a bit pricey to create. Your admittedly wonderful cast, even for bit parts, like Justin, really is very expensive, and many are stars who would only do bit roles under certain circumstances. Like for a friend. Got any friends in that category, David Weber?

This is a fun topic. I enjoy every post.
r

I think I know which Oil of Olay commercial you were talking about and the actress is Thandie Newton. She was in one of the Mission Impossible movies and would be a great casting choice although I'd probably cast her as Allison Harrington and get someone in their early to mid twenties for Honor.

Peter, I understand the point about the story being a SciFi story, unfortunately most people who aren't SciFi folks like us who geek out on the details the technobabble prefer to tune that out and get on with the plot. 12 would be too young for someone to wrap their heads around but 15-16 we have no issues with, just look at shows like the OC fer crying out loud (not that I've seen a second of the show, just the cast pictures.)

On the issue of 18 year olds commanding starships and some folks issues with the Star Trek reboot. I don't get that, a young looking early twenties character would strengthen the point about prolong and Alistair's issues with Honor. It would even allow for discussion of the differences in the prolong generations. It would be meant to be a bit jarring, it is for Alistair and many other who meet her throughout the story. She is third gen prolong and received the treatments early, make the point and cast well and it would be easy to make work.

As for the idea that movie goers would have a problem with Honor and Hamish, I disagree. There are plenty of 20-something marries 40-something and the Homewrecker sideline. That would just be a compelling sideplot in a soap opera. I suspect there would be a far greater outcry over the polygamy than the affair.

Whoever is in the cast won't be in more than two or three movies at the most if it takes more than a couple years between movies. Look at Tom Clancy's books-in-to-movies: there have been three Jack Ryans. How about James Bond? After Sean Connery they've still been trying to get it right after how many?

So just for grins and giggles I can dream about any cast I want. If I get even one right I'll e tickled.

Launian wrote:

petercharters wrote:

Launian wrote: Why would you go "ick" when Midshipwoman Paveltic talks about her love life on screen? Or her sex life, for that matter? Yeah, she's supposed to look like a 12 years old, but if wichever actress gets casted actually fits that part of the character's description, I'm pretty sure there's going to be a line somewhere were it's explained that she isn't really just out of 6th grade. So, if that's cleared up, there's no need to make her grow up 10 years physically. If people can't get pass their gut reaction, that's their problem.

Um, no, that's not only their damn problem. A movie will ot be made just for artistic satisfaction or First Lord Weber's ego. It will be expected to be a success in its own right and those investing in it will not want to make a large monetary loss.

And that's exactly what will happen when the reviews start talking about how creepy it was to watch a twelve year old joking about her sex life. The more alert, better ones who actually don't tune out when technobabble comes on will make some comment about there being an explanation that she's really older, but that they can't get past the fact that [actressnamehere] is only 13.

It's hard to get people to use more than their eyes. Heck, look at the number of people who read/watched Twilight and don't find it phenomenally creepy that some hundred-year old dude is still hanging around in schools lusting after teenagers? If the actor had looked like he was, say, seventy or more, I suspect there would have been a much, much different reaction.

Ok, first, same thing's going to happen (the creepy comments) when Honor and Hamish start fooling around — specially with Hamish "betraying" Emily, and then the whole marriage thing and how they go over the sanctity of marriage. This is a sci-fi movie, so people have to get into their heads that their whole moral mindset is going to be diferent from ours. And it's not "technobabble" either; it's just the same as glasses, or those hearing devices people with hearing impediments use (don't know the name, sorry), something that improves quality of life.

Second, for us to ever get to see a Shadow of Saganami movie, there has to be a solid core of movie fans (people who has read the books can't make a movie a success, sadly), wich means that even if there's anything close to the kind of reaction you're suggesting (wich I find unlikely), it won't damage the profit that the movie will make. If anything like that happened on OBS, you might have a point, but as things are, it is meaningless.

And finally, can you exactly tell me where she makes a joke about her "sex life"? As far as I remember, the only thing she ever says about her love life is something about a certain boat bay boy noticing a "flat-chested girl". Now, unless you tell me that a girl with the looks of a 12 y.o. talking about her chest is immoral or somehow wrong, I don't see why that should curl anyone's hair. I know that it was a concern for most girls I knew when I was 12 y.o., so I don't see how it would be different 2000 years from now. Specially if said girl is actually quite a bit older but stil hindered by such "deficiency".

Anyways, I agree that an older looking girl could be casted for that role (if there's ever a movie with her on it), but I'd go for a 15-16 y.o. look instead.

I have a few comments (again). Will the Shadow series even be made or will they stick to the mainline? Will Shadow of Saganami, which is where Pavletic lived (& died) ever get made before the entire production staff and all the financial folks also die? You all realize that it will be about two dozen or more years down the road by the time we see this film...and many billions of dollars made worldwide before that, else it won't ever get made.

So all this agony over a thirteen year old's sex life is just plain silly. And here I am commenting on it - silly me - when I could be re-reading Mission of Honor for the who knows how many-ith time. Is this what happens when Baen takes so darn long to get the next book out? Foo!

I guess Anna Torv (Olivia on Fringe) at least belongs in the discussion. Somewhat tallish and brings at least some recognition to the role, but 33 or so and I'm not sure the voice is right.

grendel_one wrote:I guess Anna Torv (Olivia on Fringe) at least belongs in the discussion. Somewhat tallish and brings at least some recognition to the role, but 33 or so and I'm not sure the voice is right.

Another Aussie actor being an American.

Talk about tall (& thin) who's your Cathy Montaigne? Short and wide (not fat), who's your Capt. Zilwicki?

Another issue is how many of your favorite characters will be written out (or ignored) in the film or films? The above two for sure, but any guesses on who else? And what else (which of Manticore's allies in the Havenite war will disappear? I say all of them. What say all of you?

Well there is a char that maybe is not going to appear on the first movie but later specially when the queen of manticore gather all the people she trust, i would put whoopi goldberg as the aunt of the queen of manticore the one that was regent for elizabeth when her dad died, she has the right coloration and i think she is an outstanding actress who can make Caitrin Winton-Henke and really give us the sense of a grand duchess of the realm of manticore.

walkssoftly wrote:

petercharters wrote:I think trying to accurately portray the book description would be a bad idea. A non-blonde-bimbo look is good enough, I think.

As for age, I think the prolong issue is just going to complicate things; spending five to ten minutes every movie explaining why people look so young just takes time away from plot and dialog elsewhere, not to mention seeming really clumsy. It will also be instinctively hard for people to watch an eighteen year old command a starship and gain the crew's respect and devotion without it feeling false or like one of those manga series where the captain is seventy and the rest of the bridge crew are thirteen - I even had that problem in the last Star Trek movie (plus what the heck? They promoted a cadet/maybe midshipman [they hadn't graduated yet iirc] to captain and assigned them command of the Federation's flagship? How many 21 year olds have commanded the USS Nimitz or any other carrier?) and the actor looked well past eighteen, to be honest.

As for physicality, forget worrying too much about chest size or height or how asian her features are. The command presence is what will make the role and the film; gravitas is far more important than exact skin tone. Plot, timing and characterisation will make the movie a success, even if it fills the forum with "oh no! She was a C-cup, not a B-cup! She was only 5'11!!!!" There's lots of stuff that will have to be carefully adapted from the books.

I saw Honor Harrington's face today in an Oil of Olay commercial. The brown eyes stared into yoiur soul from a mature face that could have been 20 or a 120. She looked like the cover art from the books brought to life.

If I had a bazillion dollars to invest in the movies, Jada Plinket Smith would be QE III with Will Smith as Prince Justin. Whoopie Goldberg has to be Duchess Caitrin Winton-Henke (you're the Queen of Manticore! Act likie it). Sounded just like Guinan (You're the Captain! Start acting likie it).
Vanessa Williams as Queen Adrienne. Lawrence Fishbourne as Earl Gold Peak.

David James Elliot as Hamish Alexander with Michael Wewtherly as his brother. Although he's way to old, Chuck Norris would have been a great Andrew. Mark Harmon could probably pull it off now.

Horace Harkness, Bruce Campbell, who else? Scotty Tremaine, Ryan Cartwright (got killed in Bones as Mr.Vincent Nigel-Murray then showed up as Gary in Alphas)

Robin Williams as Admiral Courvoisier or High Admiral Wesley Mathews.

Tom Sellect has to be in there somewhere: Duke Cromarty? Howard Clinkscale?

Michael Caine as James MaGuiness (Alfred in Batman movies).

John Laroquette as Alfred Harrington.

There's more, but you get the drift.

There is something to be said about a non-star but good actor inhabiting a role. Think Noomi Rapace as Lisbeth Sanders in The Girl With The Dragon Tattoo. Now, we know who she is but at first she WAS Lisbeth Sanders. That is what I want for Honor. I want the person playing her to BE her and not have contaminating thoughts floating in my brain like, "Oh look, Charlize Theron can/can't act like a ship captain too!" In other words, most "stars" come with baggage, even the good ones that is why with some projects directors will decide to shun them and search for a new face for their film. Two films of note that did that were Gone With The Wind with Vivian Leigh and King Kong with Jessica Lang.