Position of ships in orbit

Wiki wrote:Aircraft carriers are positioned within naval formations at sea as the central element of a Carrier Strike Group (CSG), formerly known as a Carrier Battle Group.

Here's a breakdown of how they are positioned and why:
• Centerpiece of the formation: The aircraft carrier serves as the core of the CSG, around which the other ships are arranged.
• Offensive power: The carrier's primary role is to project air power, both offensively against targets and defensively to protect the fleet.
• Protective screen: Other vessels in the CSG, such as cruisers, destroyers, and frigates, form a protective screen around the carrier, defending it against threats such as aircraft and submarines.
• Strategic distance: While close in relation to the overall formation, the ships in a CSG maintain considerable distances from each other, often many miles away from the carrier, for tactical and defensive reasons.
• Command and Control: The carrier acts as a command platform for the entire battle group or multinational task force.
In essence, the aircraft carrier's strategic importance and offensive capabilities necessitate its placement at the heart of the naval formation, surrounded by its protective escorts.

penny wrote:I know this is a difficult question. Probably pretty much rhetorical. I have simply always wondered about the organization of ships, say Home Fleet, when the enemy hypers in and the fleet goes out to meet them.

Wiki wrote:Orbital positions around Earth are defined by a satellite's path and its relationship to Earth's equator. Key factors include inclination (angle relative to the equator), altitude, and eccentricity (shape of the orbit).

Common orbital types include Low Earth Orbit (LEO), Medium Earth Orbit (MEO), and Geostationary Orbit (GEO), each serving different purposes.

Understanding Orbital Positions:

• Inclination:
This refers to the angle between a satellite's orbital plane and Earth's equator. An inclination of 0° means the orbit is directly above the equator, while 90° means it passes over the poles.

• Altitude:
This is the height of the orbit above Earth's surface. Higher altitudes result in larger orbital periods and wider coverage areas.

• Eccentricity:
This describes the shape of the orbit. An eccentricity of 0 is a perfect circle, while higher values indicate an elliptical path.

Common Orbital Types:

• Low Earth Orbit (LEO):
Relatively close to Earth (160-2,000 km), used for satellite imaging, the International Space Station, and some communication satellites.

• Medium Earth Orbit (MEO):
Located between LEO and GEO, often used for navigation systems like GPS.

• Geostationary Orbit (GEO):
Located at a specific altitude (approximately 35,786 km) where the orbital period matches Earth's rotation, so the satellite appears stationary from Earth. Used for communication and weather satellites.

• Polar Orbit:
Inclination of approximately 90 degrees, passing over or near the Earth's poles. Useful for Earth observation and remote sensing.

• Sun-synchronous Orbit (SSO):
A type of polar orbit where the satellite passes over the same spot on Earth at the same local time every day, ideal for imaging satellites.

Factors Influencing Orbits:

• Earth's Rotation:
Earth's spin affects the apparent motion of objects in orbit, particularly in LEO and MEO.

• Earth's Gravity:
Gravity is the primary force that keeps satellites in orbit, pulling them towards Earth.

• Newton's Laws:
Newton's laws of motion and gravity explain the relationship between force, mass, and motion in orbital paths.

penny wrote:Thanks Jonathan.

It is just that we always talk about the fleet sitting in orbit with wedges and sidewalls down, and that that would be the most opportune time for gtorps or any kind of attack to occur.

However, as best that I can imagine a fleet positioned in orbit, it seems like the best time for Spider ships to attack the fleet is while it is sitting in orbit, whether it has its wedges down or not.

While a fleet is in orbit, let’s say Grand Fleet, I would imagine that the biggest ships including Imperator would settle into the highest orbit. That way if they are attacked and blown up, their debris would be farther away from the planet. By inference, the smaller ships would settle into the lowest orbits. If Imperator has settled into the highest orbit, that would also make it more difficult for it to be attacked with energy weapons from ground-side.

My point is that it would seem to be impossible for Imperator to be surrounded by screening elements while it is in orbit. So if the MAN wanted a clear shot at Imperator, waiting for the fleet to settle down in orbit would be the best time to attack with gtorps. Even if the attack has to come from polar north or from polar south as opposed to directly out of the galactic plane.

The entire fleet is not going to fit into the same orbit.

Jonathan_S wrote:

penny wrote:Thanks Jonathan.

It is just that we always talk about the fleet sitting in orbit with wedges and sidewalls down, and that that would be the most opportune time for gtorps or any kind of attack to occur.

However, as best that I can imagine a fleet positioned in orbit, it seems like the best time for Spider ships to attack the fleet is while it is sitting in orbit, whether it has its wedges down or not.

While a fleet is in orbit, let’s say Grand Fleet, I would imagine that the biggest ships including Imperator would settle into the highest orbit. That way if they are attacked and blown up, their debris would be farther away from the planet. By inference, the smaller ships would settle into the lowest orbits. If Imperator has settled into the highest orbit, that would also make it more difficult for it to be attacked with energy weapons from ground-side.

My point is that it would seem to be impossible for Imperator to be surrounded by screening elements while it is in orbit. So if the MAN wanted a clear shot at Imperator, waiting for the fleet to settle down in orbit would be the best time to attack with gtorps. Even if the attack has to come from polar north or from polar south as opposed to directly out of the galactic plane.

The entire fleet is not going to fit into the same orbit.

Concern about ground fire would only seem to apply if you're in orbit around a hostile planet. If you're in orbit around, say, Manticore you don't need to worry about keeping your valuable ships away from ground fire -- but you presumably would want them screened to keep anyone from sneaking up on them (and thus would want at least some of the escorts positioned, or even patrolling, outward of the heavies.

And around a potentially hostile planet they'd definitely want the heavies surrounded by escorts; so they wouldn't put them all into lower orbits. They'd want some of them positioned to best monitor and intervene on the spaceward side of the formation.

For that matter a fleet 'in orbit' might not literally be orbiting the planet. Even with just their maneuvering thrusters they've got plenty of delta-v and fuel they don't need to rely purely on natural orbital mechanics to stay above the planet. For that matter if you have a large fleet that would clutter the orbitals you might put them into a solar orbit at the same radius as the planet but leading or trailing it slightly. (I don't think that's a stable orbital position long term -- but again they've got plenty of delta-v for corrections to their position) That kind of orbit would let them adopt any formation they wanted but still be only minutes from the planet (given Honorverse accelerations)

penny wrote:Position of ships in orbit

How are the ships of Home Fleet positioned while the fleet is in orbit?

How are the ships of Grand Fleet positioned while it is in orbit?

penny wrote:Home Fleet sits in orbit for years. Day after day. That is a lot of reaction fuel. I can’t believe that that much reaction fuel would be wasted on a non-standard orbit.

About an attack from ground-side. A state sponsored assassination could smuggle the hardware to build a Graser underground, uncover the Graser at the right time and fire on Imperator, or Honor’s or any other shuttle leaving the ship. The same tactic can also be attempted when a fleet is in orbit around any other planet other than Manticore.

penny wrote:Home Fleet sits in orbit for years. Day after day. That is a lot of reaction fuel. I can’t believe that that much reaction fuel would be wasted on a non-standard orbit.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:First of all, no they don't stay in orbit for years. We know that they shift patterns of deployment depending on where Manticore and Sphinx are in their orbital positions, because Sphinx is much closer to the hyperlimit. If Sphinx is not protected by the Junction Resonance Zone and Manticore is not close to conjunction with Sphinx, then the Manticore-A detachment must be split so as to cover that planet too. Remember that when Tourville arrived for the Battle of Manticore, Home Fleet was between the two planets because Sphinx was supposedly protected by the RZ.

Let's not forget they also split up to cover the Junction. With four major locations to cover and with regular refits, ships move a lot, including the big boys.

If you're a couple of million km from the planet, past the L2 with the star, you're outside its Hill Sphere and therefore you're in just a heliocentric (astrocentric, since it's not the Sun) orbit. An unstable one if you're not at one of the Lagrange points - somewhere they wouldn't be because those are valuable real estate - but the amount of fuel required to keep it is very small.

I suspect the fuel needed to keep a leading or trailing position from the planet is minimal: something like one year of orbital keeping is equivalent to one day of deployment.

penny wrote:About an attack from ground-side. A state sponsored assassination could smuggle the hardware to build a Graser underground, uncover the Graser at the right time and fire on Imperator, or Honor’s or any other shuttle leaving the ship. The same tactic can also be attempted when a fleet is in orbit around any other planet other than Manticore.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:I suppose it's possible. It would take a year or two to build it underground, clandestinely. Then trickle-charge it in a way that the power draw isn't noticed. Then keep it charged until the target ship comes into range and within the very minimal cone of targeting.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:In any case, it looks like the parking orbit of the HMS Imperator when Honor was in command was the Trevor's Star terminus of the Junction.