Preston of the Space Ways

Theemile wrote:Which brings the point, on warships, if a navigational hazard is encountered that particle shields cannot handle, the forward lasers are engaged to handle the hazard. Shouldn't all ships have a forward mounted hazard laser? Obviously it wouldn't be a large emplacement, like a old DD PDLC or Pinnance laser, but shouldn't EVERY ship be slightly armed?

ThinksMarkedly wrote:There's no such thing as an unarmed spaceship. The ship itself is a weapon: crash it at high speed on the planet or into a space station and it's worse than any laser.

Against other ships, which retain the ability to dodge, it may be ineffective. But a system is usually more concerned about its fixed assets.

You know that is not the question, instead it is whether the ship has a way to defend itself against particles that its particle shielding cannot handle. Assuming that particle shielding has a limitation that is velocity dependent, then a ship without a beam weapon can just slow down until its shielding can handle any likely particle hazard. Which still means that there is a chance of encountering something worse.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

Theemile wrote:Which brings the point, on warships, if a navigational hazard is encountered that particle shields cannot handle, the forward lasers are engaged to handle the hazard. Shouldn't all ships have a forward mounted hazard laser? Obviously it wouldn't be a large emplacement, like a old DD PDLC or Pinnance laser, but shouldn't EVERY ship be slightly armed?

There's no such thing as an unarmed spaceship. The ship itself is a weapon: crash it at high speed on the planet or into a space station and it's worse than any laser.

Against other ships, which retain the ability to dodge, it may be ineffective. But a system is usually more concerned about its fixed assets.

True - but a suicide ship doesn't act at lightspeed (unlike a laser) so you've some time to react. You can establish buffer zones, speed limits, and ultimately no-impeller zones as you approach critical areas like your stations or the planet.
That gives you time and space for your defenses and tugs to deal with a ship that ignores those safety restrictions.

And so while, yes, any ship is dangerous they're probably still viewed quite differently than ships that mount actually weapons-grade lasers or missiles.

tlb wrote:

Theemile wrote:Which brings the point, on warships, if a navigational hazard is encountered that particle shields cannot handle, the forward lasers are engaged to handle the hazard. Shouldn't all ships have a forward mounted hazard laser? Obviously it wouldn't be a large emplacement, like a old DD PDLC or Pinnance laser, but shouldn't EVERY ship be slightly armed?

ThinksMarkedly wrote:There's no such thing as an unarmed spaceship. The ship itself is a weapon: crash it at high speed on the planet or into a space station and it's worse than any laser.

Against other ships, which retain the ability to dodge, it may be ineffective. But a system is usually more concerned about its fixed assets.

You know that is not the question, instead it is whether the ship has a way to defend itself against particles that its particle shielding cannot handle. Assuming that particle shielding has a limitation that is velocity dependent, then a ship without a beam weapon can just slow down until its shielding can handle any likely particle hazard. Which still means that there is a chance of encountering something worse.

The Screen limit is based on velocity/particle size. Can the Particle screen handle a baseball sized object? Can navigational radar see it far enough out to change course in time if it is too large? What if the object is moving a 20% C on a reciprocal course? Can it be dodged/absorbed? What is the probability of hitting one or more of those objects in a particular area of space? What about in an asteroid field (Like in Manticore B space?

Those are the questions we don't know.

We Do know that when something cannot be absorbed or blocked, a bow laser is supposed to be engaged automatically to neutralize the threat - this might be just warships, but shouldn't every ship which travels in deep space have such or face extremely limited top speeds?

I assumed that part of the safety measures against dangerous sized fragments and asteroid fields is acceptable detection ranges. An entire asteroid field should definitely be detected at evasive maneuver ranges. Asteroid fields are mapped, I thought. But a stray asteroid is certainly possible. Especially in unchartered waters. But, well, a ship should be able to roll its wedge against a single asteroid, no?

penny wrote:I assumed that part of the safety measures against dangerous sized fragments and asteroid fields is acceptable detection ranges. An entire asteroid field should definitely be detected at evasive maneuver ranges. Asteroid fields are mapped, I thought. But a stray asteroid is certainly possible. Especially in unchartered waters. But, well, a ship should be able to roll its wedge against a single asteroid, no?

We recently had a large interstellar object pass through the solar system. The problem in space is the large number of meteor size objects moving around that are not mapped, any one of which could damage the hull of a freighter (with particular attention to the pressurized crew area or fusion reactor or generator rooms). To interpose the wedge would require a 90 degree slew turn, in addition to a possible roll, since the objects are coming from somewhere in front.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:Nations don't tend to have laws that include "except for ones of good reputation".

At best they have bureaucratic and annoying licensing and registration paperwork for armed private ships which includes consideration for good reputation -- but that doesn't making getting prior permission from each and every star nation any less of a pain.

I agree with Jonathan here: Honor may be able to get the necessary permits and she may even insist that she won't come unless she can use her armed transport, but I she'd need to get them anyway. If nothing else, to prove to any annoying inspection team whose leader hadn't been born yet when she performed her feats.

I totally agree as well. I'm not questioning whether or not Honor – or any similar such person like a Preston – has to go through proper channels to get permission. I'm suggesting that it would simply be a formality.

I understand why systems would not want to be in the habit of allowing armed warships to operate in their system. The main reason that that is so I'd think has to do with safety and security. Only.

Having said that. What could be more safe or secure than having an Honor Harrington operating in your system when the rotary impeller blows excrement in your system.

“Oh my God, what are we going to do against these people who are here to rob us? … Wait, did you say Honor just squealed a message to us that she has arrived?”

There should not be a more comforting feeling than to have an armed Honor Harrington operating in your system at the exact time some very nasty pirates happened to happen by. No system in their right mind would deny an Honor Harrington. It's good for business. Everyone should feel safer. Your system would benefit from it.

Jonathan_S wrote:Nations don't tend to have laws that include "except for ones of good reputation".

At best they have bureaucratic and annoying licensing and registration paperwork for armed private ships which includes consideration for good reputation -- but that doesn't making getting prior permission from each and every star nation any less of a pain.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:I agree with Jonathan here: Honor may be able to get the necessary permits and she may even insist that she won't come unless she can use her armed transport, but I she'd need to get them anyway. If nothing else, to prove to any annoying inspection team whose leader hadn't been born yet when she performed her feats.

penny wrote:I totally agree as well. I'm not questioning whether or not Honor – or any similar such person like a Preston – has to go through proper channels to get permission. I'm suggesting that it would simply be a formality.

I understand why systems would not want to be in the habit of allowing armed warships to operate in their system. The main reason that that is so I'd think has to do with safety and security. Only.

Having said that. What could be more safe or secure than having an Honor Harrington operating in your system when the rotary impeller blows excrement in your system.

“Oh my God, what are we going to do against these people who are here to rob us? … Wait, did you say Honor just squealed a message to us that she has arrived?”

There should not be a more comforting feeling than to have an armed Honor Harrington operating in your system at the exact time some very nasty pirates happened to happen by. No system in their right mind would deny an Honor Harrington. It's good for business. Everyone should feel safer. Your system would benefit from it.

Moreover Honor does not gallivant around the space ways looking for trouble; she only goes where assigned, the same as the original Preston of the RCMP, who patrolled his territory in the Yukon. Plus she does much less of that now that she wants to be with her children.

Basically, there is NO Preston of the Space Ways of the type that you seem to imagine. Perhaps there are people and ships that could come to the aid of someone attacked by a pirate, but it is unlikely to be someone just wandering around space for their own amusement. Captain Thomas Bachfisch and Pirates' Bane (or his other ship) come closest to that description, but they are being financed by Manticore's Admiralty as spies in the Silesian Confederation.

penny wrote:I totally agree as well. I'm not questioning whether or not Honor – or any similar such person like a Preston – has to go through proper channels to get permission. I'm suggesting that it would simply be a formality.

Probably.

Having said that. What could be more safe or secure than having an Honor Harrington operating in your system when the rotary impeller blows excrement in your system.

“Oh my God, what are we going to do against these people who are here to rob us? … Wait, did you say Honor just squealed a message to us that she has arrived?”

There should not be a more comforting feeling than to have an armed Honor Harrington operating in your system at the exact time some very nasty pirates happened to happen by. No system in their right mind would deny an Honor Harrington. It's good for business. Everyone should feel safer. Your system would benefit from it.

Because she'd be a very tempting target for anyone above a pirate. Pirates won't tangle with a corvette, so that's not a big threat anyway. But if you have wannabe warlord coming with a hypercapable surplus frigate and destroyer, and Honor is around, she'd be a target. Her armed yacht is unlikely to be significantly better than a proper warship, even an old one.

And now your system is on the hook to explaining to Manticore and Grayson and Beowulf why you've lost Honor.

Of course, this is not much different from a situation if she'd just arrived in an un-armed yacht. In either case, I think she'd simply lay low and record what is happening. She's not stupid and she'd know what her ship can or cannot do.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
Because she'd be a very tempting target for anyone above a pirate. Pirates won't tangle with a corvette, so that's not a big threat anyway. But if you have wannabe warlord coming with a hypercapable surplus frigate and destroyer, and Honor is around, she'd be a target. Her armed yacht is unlikely to be significantly better than a proper warship, even an old one.

And now your system is on the hook to explaining to Manticore and Grayson and Beowulf why you've lost Honor.

Of course, this is not much different from a situation if she'd just arrived in an un-armed yacht. In either case, I think she'd simply lay low and record what is happening. She's not stupid and she'd know what her ship can or cannot do.

While you can't control every situation, if there is any danger in the location Honor is traveling to, I'm fairly certain Manticore and/or (definitely) Grayson will find a spare division of heavy cruisers or battle cruisers which just happen to be going the same direction.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Because she'd be a very tempting target for anyone above a pirate. Pirates won't tangle with a corvette, so that's not a big threat anyway. But if you have wannabe warlord coming with a hypercapable surplus frigate and destroyer, and Honor is around, she'd be a target. Her armed yacht is unlikely to be significantly better than a proper warship, even an old one.

And now your system is on the hook to explaining to Manticore and Grayson and Beowulf why you've lost Honor.

Of course, this is not much different from a situation if she'd just arrived in an un-armed yacht. In either case, I think she'd simply lay low and record what is happening. She's not stupid and she'd know what her ship can or cannot do.

Theemile wrote:While you can't control every situation, if there is any danger in the location Honor is traveling to, I'm fairly certain Manticore and/or (definitely) Grayson will find a spare division of heavy cruisers or battle cruisers which just happen to be going the same direction.

Do we know that Honor has an armed yacht (that is above the level of a laser cluster to assist in particle screening)? I do not remember any indication that it could fight even a solitary frigate.