Reporters on Galton

tlb wrote:

penny wrote:This passage specifically emphasizes why the reporters must be strategically located on the flag bridge to be credible witnesses if the excrement hits the whine of the rotary turbine.

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Chris Scarborough and Bryant Hirsch were the two featured reporters on the scene during Denver Summervale’s execution. Scarborough was the usual typical hostile reporter against anything associated with the likes of Honor Harrington. Honor couldn't get a break from Scarborough's admonishment no matter what the incredulous Bryant Hirsch continually pointed out to him what the scum Young had done.

If I am mistaken please correct me. But in the history of the HV I don't recall any reporter who was sympathetic to Honor’s cause. Even war reporters. Specifically war reporters! Stacy Hauptman eventually became friends with Honor, but I am uncertain of her feelings toward Honor initially. Audrey is what I call neutral, but other than this Bryant Hirsch, I don't recall a single reporter who liked Honor. That fact is what prompted Stacey Hauptman to buy a newspaper to help Honor out. Do you recall any other reporters, of any specialty, actually in Honor's corner? Do tell!

I would say, somewhere that they can witness the interaction between Galton and the fleet; but not specifically on the bridge or the flag deck.

You have already pointed out one such reporter. I am completely comfortable with the books not mentioning any other "reporter who was sympathetic to Honor’s cause". That does not mean that such reporters do not exist; but the author is writing drama, not a documentary.

PS: When did White Haven make "a beeline to Nouveau Paris"?

The author's "drama" clearly shared with us that reporters are the bane of Honor's existence. Hence, Stacy bought a news outlet specifically to balance things out. Are there other reporters that might like Honor? Sure; insignificant wet-behind-the-ears reporters.

We all know White Haven did not make an actual beeline for Nouveau Paris. His plans of total Peep conquest were upended by Saint Just. But he was getting around to it. The beeline was coming. White Haven's bees were buzzing with glee before Saint Just blew smoke on the hive.

tlb wrote:When did White Haven make "a beeline to Nouveau Paris"?

penny wrote:We all know White Haven did not make an actual beeline for Nouveau Paris. His plans of total Peep conquest were upended by Saint Just. But he was getting around to it. The beeline was coming. White Haven's bees were buzzing with glee before Saint Just blew smoke on the hive.

The question comes up because you claimed earlier that there were no reporters on that "beeline". Which raises an interesting question or paradox. If the trip never took place were there zero reporters on it or an infinite number or some definite number in between?

tlb wrote:

tlb wrote:When did White Haven make "a beeline to Nouveau Paris"?

penny wrote:We all know White Haven did not make an actual beeline for Nouveau Paris. His plans of total Peep conquest were upended by Saint Just. But he was getting around to it. The beeline was coming. White Haven's bees were buzzing with glee before Saint Just blew smoke on the hive.

The question comes up because you claimed earlier that there were no reporters on that "beeline". Which raises an interesting question or paradox. If the trip never took place were there zero reporters on it or an infinite number or some definite number in between?

Only you would nitpick like that.

Indeed I did. There were no reporters present during White Haven's long campaign in preparation to attack Nouveau Paris. And I'd wager the reporters would have been useful against the scathing objections of the Opposition to wage war. Yet, no reporters were ever mentioned. Embedding reporters along with White Haven's successful campaign possibly would've given the average humanoid (regardless of brain size, political affiliation, civilian or military) a true representation of what the SEM faced with the Peeps. Yet, no reporters.

BTW, even bees do not make a beeline initially. First they send worker bees out (in all directions!) to find a suitable food source. Once a suitable food source is found they go back to the hive and dance. The dance communicates location. The Queen dances to relay the information to other bees. Another bee may literally bump heads with the Queen to stop her from dancing if the food source later turns out to be dangerous. Like a spider attacking. Thus, even bees have an "island hopping" campaign before the beeline; and a contingency plan if the food source becomes dangerous. White Haven's contingency plan for safety was built into the island hopping campaign which was meant to destroy Peep bases whose forces could potentially surround him.


P.S. My apology for not placing “beeline” in quotes as such. I knew that you would probably object. I was too lazy to edit it after it was posted. I do lots of editing as it is to shorten my posts. And this incessant hacking does not make it easy for me to post. Please. No more disrespectful comments about me not being hacked. If you had to put up with all that I do, you'd know. So, just stop pls.

tlb wrote:

penny wrote:This passage specifically emphasizes why the reporters must be strategically located on the flag bridge to be credible witnesses if the excrement hits the whine of the rotary turbine.

****** *

Chris Scarborough and Bryant Hirsch were the two featured reporters on the scene during Denver Summervale’s execution. Scarborough was the usual typical hostile reporter against anything associated with the likes of Honor Harrington. Honor couldn't get a break from Scarborough's admonishment no matter what the incredulous Bryant Hirsch continually pointed out to him what the scum Young had done.

If I am mistaken please correct me. But in the history of the HV I don't recall any reporter who was sympathetic to Honor’s cause. Even war reporters. Specifically war reporters! Stacy Hauptman eventually became friends with Honor, but I am uncertain of her feelings toward Honor initially. Audrey is what I call neutral, but other than this Bryant Hirsch, I don't recall a single reporter who liked Honor. That fact is what prompted Stacey Hauptman to buy a newspaper to help Honor out. Do you recall any other reporters, of any specialty, actually in Honor's corner? Do tell!

I would say, somewhere that they can witness the interaction between Galton and the fleet; but not specifically on the bridge or the flag deck.

You have already pointed out one such reporter. I am completely comfortable with the books not mentioning any other "reporter who was sympathetic to Honor’s cause". That does not mean that such reporters do not exist; but the author is writing drama, not a documentary.

PS: When did White Haven make "a beeline to Nouveau Paris"?

That would still be second-hand knowledge. Were the conversations ever muted? Could you witness Honor's and the crew's disposition? Did Honor say one thing but gave hidden secret hand signals that she established beforehand? Are you sure you weren't watching delayed and edited footage in realtime? And yadda yadda yadda goes the questions that would be asked if presented after the rotary impeller flung feces all over Honor and her crew.

penny wrote:My apology for not placing “beeline” in quotes as such. I knew that you would probably object. I was too lazy to edit it after it was posted. I do lots of editing as it is to shorten my posts.

I never objected to you using the word "beeline" (a perfectly good word, even if scientifically incorrect), only that the trip never took place so it could NOT be used as an example of not talking reporters to a battle. There would be no reason for you to put it in quotes, I only did to emphasize that it was an alleged trip.

I previously gave my answer as to why there would be be reporters going to Galton, when there had not been any (as far as I can tell) when Honor went to deliver the ultimatum to the Solarian League (nor in various other battles):

There were already many thousands of reporters (foreign and domestic) in Haven, Manticore and the Sol System; whereas Galton was the special case of a hidden system being forced into the light of Galactic exposure. So reporters needed to be supplied.

tlb wrote:I would say, somewhere that they can witness the interaction between Galton and the fleet; but not specifically on the bridge or the flag deck.

penny wrote:That would still be second-hand knowledge. Were the conversations ever muted? Could you witness Honor's and the crew's disposition? Did Honor say one thing but gave hidden secret hand signals that she established beforehand? Are you sure you weren't watching delayed and edited footage in realtime?

All are valid questions, but you are never going to be positioned where you can get both Honor's reactions and that of all the crew. ThinksMarkedly has pointed out that there are operational secrets to which the news people should not be allowed access. The main thing that they want will be the interaction between Honor and the General at Galton, so hidden hand signals are probably not a worry.

tlb wrote:All are valid questions, but you are never going to be positioned where you can get both Honor's reactions and that of all the crew.

Flag bridge will position them to see and hear everything just fine.


Anyway, tough titty on the turkey. Either Honor wants incontrovertible witnesses or she doesn't. If she is worried about operational secrets then I am sure that she can debrief everyone on the flag bridge and they can discuss how to allow the reporter(s) full access to the bridge without giving away any of those operational secrets this time.

ThinksMarkedly wrote: Thinksmarkedly has pointed out that there are operational secrets to which the news people should not be allowed access. The main thing that they want will be the interaction between Honor and the General at Galton, so hidden hand signals are probably not a worry.

Perhaps you and Thinksmarkedly can fill me in on exactly what those operational secrets are that the reporters would not be able to become privy to by watching a closed feed video where they can actually still be a credible witness and somehow magically unable to become privy to such secrets? If closed feed video will prevent the reporters from uncovering any secrets it will also prevent the reporters from getting the full measure of what happened.

Yes, the main thing the reporters need is the interaction between Honor and the General at Galton. How can they be assured, and later testify (and publish), that they got that interaction if they were not actually on the bridge? They also need to be positioned where they would get subsequent communications as well; if there would be any subsequent communications. And they need to be certain of whether there were or were not any subsequent communications. They also need to bear witness to any communications between Honor and the second, or third or fourth in command if the General is killed in an early salvo. They also need to know who fired first? There's nothing like being on the bridge witnessing a missile launch from the enemy coming right at you. And ... and ... how will they be able to dispute that the enemy did not strike their wedges?

And, for those of you who say that Audrey being on the flag bridge alone won't give her the scoop? Stop smoking that Stilthy weed!

Listen, if the GA is so confident and arrogant, that they can bring along liabilities and protect them because they can simply loiter outside the hyper limit and fling missiles while eating cake, then surely that luxury will also allow them to change their habits on the bridge while guests are there.

If not then leave the damn reporters home if they won't be allowed to actually … report. Honor's particular nicknames that are well known and precede her all around the galaxy and are embedded into every grapevine is the notion that she is an out of control loose warhead. A hothead that needs reeling in. How in the H-E double hockey sticks is anyone going to be convinced otherwise if she "locked the reporters up in a room?"

“Did you see and hear everything?”

“No, they were concerned about us seeing and hearing everything.”

“WHAT??? Then why are all of the news agencies referring to Audrey's piece? And why do I have to pay to use Audrey's piece just like everyone else when I sent you along!??? Why does it sound like she was sitting in Honor's lap and you were hiding in some damn closet!??? You know what it cost us to finance your trip to beyond the known galaxy?! You're fired!”


If the Editor-in-Chief of their outfit is anything like Perry White of the Daily Planet, then those reporters would be fired. Then sued. They'd never work in the business again. Not even in the mailroom. Not even as gofers. The fact that they will then sue Honor will make for good traction and fuel the fire of her antagonistic enemies.

penny wrote:And, for those of you who say that Audrey being on the flag bridge alone won't give her the scoop?

I have not read the section closely. Do you know for a fact that Audrey was on the flag bridge during the battle? If she was, then there is no problem and other reporters could be there also.

penny wrote:Perhaps you and Thinksmarkedly can fill me in on exactly what those operational secrets are that the reporters would not be able to become privy to by watching a closed feed video where they can actually still be a credible witness and somehow magically unable to become privy to such secrets? If closed feed video will prevent the reporters from uncovering any secrets it will also prevent the reporters from getting the full measure of what happened.

In other words, tell the flag staff not to discuss the battle in the first place? That's simply impossible.

The flag staff needs to talk to the other ships and collate data on the target system, while the target system is reacting to their arrival. There will be operational secrets like the actual scanning range of the Ghost Rider drones, how stealthy they are and how close they got to any platform. Telling Honor just how far the enemy has seemed to have detected the drones is important, but you don't want to tell the reporters that the stealth held at other ranges. Likewise for the reverse: when the GF was overflown by the Alpha and Beta drones and both were detected, you don't want to tell the reporters that they did see the Betas. Most importantly, that Andrea Jaruwalski wasn't sure to have detected them all. And yet Honor needs to know that, because Honor made the decision not to shoot down any of the drones.

There are probably more operational details that would reveal the capabilities of the RMN ships and drones. The reporters don't need to know that, especially not foreign ones.

And all of this before the first missile was launched. So you can't even say that the reporters would be on the flag bridge in the initial communications but not once hostilities start. The initial communication was after the first drones past the targets and the GF managed to pinpoint the Francis Crick Space Station.

Yes, the main thing the reporters need is the interaction between Honor and the General at Galton. How can they be assured, and later testify (and publish), that they got that interaction if they were not actually on the bridge? They also need to be positioned where they would get subsequent communications as well; if there would be any subsequent communications. And they need to be certain of whether there were or were not any subsequent communications. They also need to bear witness to any communications between Honor and the second, or third or fourth in command if the General is killed in an early salvo. They also need to know who fired first? There's nothing like being on the bridge witnessing a missile launch from the enemy coming right at you. And ... and ... how will they be able to dispute that the enemy did not strike their wedges?

Tough luck. They may want all of that but they're not going to get it.

Would be nice to know who fired first, but who's to say that the scene on the flag bridge wasn't theatrically set up too? Maybe Honor had left orders with Admiral von Rabenstrage to fire first while on her own flag bridge, in front of the reporters, she ponders the ethics of it and decides not to.

Either you trust that you got the true information from the ship you're aboard or you don't.

And besides, knowing who fired first should be very easy: there will be 500 tactical officers in the GF who will say the same thing.

Listen, if the GA is so confident and arrogant, that they can bring along liabilities and protect them because they can simply loiter outside the hyper limit and fling missiles while eating cake, then surely that luxury will also allow them to change their habits on the bridge while guests are there.

We're not talking habits here. This is not about telling Lester Tourville to avoid smoking while the reporters are present. This about telling the flag officer in question necessary information for their decision-making in the conduct of battle which may reveal sensitive capabilities of the GF.

Tell me: how many reporters get to go in the Situation Room when the president of the U.S. is overseeing an operation? All we got from the strike that took out Bin Laden was a still picture of the people in the room, shot in such a way that none of the screens were visible.

penny wrote:If the Editor-in-Chief of their outfit is anything like Perry White of the Daily Planet, then those reporters would be fired. Then sued. They'd never work in the business again. Not even in the mailroom. Not even as gofers. The fact that they will then sue Honor will make for good traction and fuel the fire of her antagonistic enemies.

Whatever the rules are for reporters, they will be known to everyone (reporters and editors alike) before anyone is allowed onboard. If anyone objects, then they are not invited. There will be no temper tantrums nor farcical firings or law suits.