Reporters on Galton

penny wrote:It would have been arrogant and irresponsible to take a shipload of reporters to a battle the GA couldn't have known it would win. Because had they lost and lost badly and every ship in the fleet destroyed, the MA would not have allowed any witnesses to return. There might have been more reporters but, well, I shall guard my vote on this one too.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:They probably stayed with the fleet train. There's no need for them to be aboard the ships doing the fight during said fighting. It's not like they were getting raw sensor readings or that they'd get to interview crew during the battle.

Then why is Audrey in the ship with Honor? War correspondents want to see what is going on, to hear the commands being given and to evaluate the response. That is not done from the fleet train.

Reporters actually rode in the bombers over Germany, not just on the trucks that refueled them.

To repeat, the fleet was outside the hyper-limit and if it went bad they could leave and regroup.

tlb wrote:

penny wrote:It would have been arrogant and irresponsible to take a shipload of reporters to a battle the GA couldn't have known it would win. Because had they lost and lost badly and every ship in the fleet destroyed, the MA would not have allowed any witnesses to return. There might have been more reporters but, well, I shall guard my vote on this one too.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:They probably stayed with the fleet train. There's no need for them to be aboard the ships doing the fight during said fighting. It's not like they were getting raw sensor readings or that they'd get to interview crew during the battle.

Then why is Audrey in the ship with Honor? War correspondents want to see what is going on, to hear the commands being given and to evaluate the response. That is not done from the fleet train.

Reporters actually rode in the bombers over Germany, not just on the trucks that refueled them.

To repeat, the fleet was outside the hyper-limit and if it went bad they could leave and regroup.

The reporters would have been aboard ship with Honor. If they are not aboard ship with Honor then they can't really know everything that went on like the orders exchanged between commanders, the disagreements, etc. If they are not with Honor hearing things first hand, then they may as well not have come. Second hand information was not what they come for.

penny wrote:The reporters would have been aboard ship with Honor. If they are not aboard ship with Honor then they can't really know everything that went on like the orders exchanged between commanders, the disagreements, etc. If they are not with Honor hearing things first hand, then they may as well not have come. Second hand information was not what they come for.

Does this mean that you have changed your mind about war correspondents?

penny wrote:The reporters would have been aboard ship with Honor. If they are not aboard ship with Honor then they can't really know everything that went on like the orders exchanged between commanders, the disagreements, etc. If they are not with Honor hearing things first hand, then they may as well not have come. Second hand information was not what they come for.

On the other hand, it makes sense to distribute them amongst the fleet, to reduce the risk of a single hit killing all of them. And it makes sense to put Havenite reporters on Havenite ships, Andermani reporters on Andermani ships etc. - most probably on board of those ship with high ranking flag officers.

And, of course, I'm talking about a handful of reporters, not more than 2 or 3 of each of the 4 nations, so we have about a dozen including O'Hanrahan.

markusschaber wrote:

penny wrote:The reporters would have been aboard ship with Honor. If they are not aboard ship with Honor then they can't really know everything that went on like the orders exchanged between commanders, the disagreements, etc. If they are not with Honor hearing things first hand, then they may as well not have come. Second hand information was not what they come for.

On the other hand, it makes sense to distribute them amongst the fleet, to reduce the risk of a single hit killing all of them. And it makes sense to put Havenite reporters on Havenite ships, Andermani reporters on Andermani ships etc. - most probably on board of those ship with high ranking flag officers.

And, of course, I'm talking about a handful of reporters, not more than 2 or 3 of each of the 4 nations, so we have about a dozen including O'Hanrahan.

Perhaps. Maybe. But we do know that Audrey was aboard ship with Honor. If Audrey was alone with Honor then that would have given Audrey the scoop. Reporters don't like getting scooped. It does not bode well for their career. And if they are going to risk their life and travel to God only knows where, then it's only fair that they do not get scooped.

Again, I'm not against embedding reporters
into war. Except in this case. In this case there were too many unknowns. And I can't take anybody’s word in the forum. You guys essentially think its cool for Honor to hyper in system then lumber around coddling a freighter … an escorted ship of journalists. Honor doesn't need that responsibility. Honor went to Galton to wage war, not to escort a cargo full of journalists!

Oh ... I forgot ... everyone charges me for thinking that Honor will care more about the journalists – who signed on for the trip and accepted the dangers – rather than her mission.

And let's be practical. How many of those journalists really thought they would be in any danger as a guest of the most brilliant officer in the galaxy on a ship in the most powerful alliance in existence.

No! That isn't what I am saying at all. I am saying that the specimen under the microscope is Honor. The question becomes “What will Honor do?” If push comes to shove and wedge comes to wedge, Honor will save the shipload of journalists from themselves even if she has to adopt a tactic she wouldn't adopt if she were alone without civilians to care for. Honor would end up losing a ship with all hands to save a bunch of civilians. Honor was going to Galton to wage war. Not to babysit.

Also, Honor had to invite Audrey. If journalists were already invited to tag along then surely Audrey would have needed no invitation. It is possible Honor invited her as a personal gesture to get firsthand information. The scoop. I admit that as a possibility. Just not likely, for a whole host of reasons I've already mentioned. No, I do not think journalists were invited to go on this trip.

And finally, to address the glaring bull in the China shop, a MAlign entity with no scruples, morals or treaties, would have used those reporters like pawns. As I said before, we won't argue whether Honor Harrington would surrender or throw the journalists to the rabid ma-lions.

penny wrote:Perhaps. Maybe. But we do know that Audrey was aboard ship with Honor. If Audrey was alone with Honor then that would have given Audrey the scoop. Reporters don't like getting scooped. It does not bode well for their career. And if they are going to risk their life and travel to God only knows where, then it's only fair that they do not get scooped.

Again, I'm not against embedding reporters
into war. Except in this case. In this case there were too many unknowns. And I can't take anybody’s word in the forum. You guys essentially think its cool for Honor to hyper in system then lumber around coddling a freighter … an escorted ship of journalists. Honor doesn't need that responsibility. Honor went to Galton to wage war, not to escort a cargo full of journalists!

Oh ... I forgot ... everyone charges me for thinking that Honor will care more about the journalists – who signed on for the trip and accepted the dangers – rather than her mission.

And let's be practical. How many of those journalists really thought they would be in any danger as a guest of the most brilliant officer in the galaxy on a ship in the most powerful alliance in existence.

No! That isn't what I am saying at all. I am saying that the specimen under the microscope is Honor. The question becomes “What will Honor do?” If push comes to shove and wedge comes to wedge, Honor will save the shipload of journalists from themselves even if she has to adopt a tactic she wouldn't adopt if she were alone without civilians to care for. Honor would end up losing a ship with all hands to save a bunch of civilians. Honor was going to Galton to wage war. Not to babysit.

Also, Honor had to invite Audrey. If journalists were already invited to tag along then surely Audrey would have needed no invitation. It is possible Honor invited her as a personal gesture to get firsthand information. The scoop. I admit that as a possibility. Just not likely, for a whole host of reasons I've already mentioned. No, I do not think journalists were invited to go on this trip.

And finally, to address the glaring bull in the China shop, a MAlign entity with no scruples, morals or treaties, would have used those reporters like pawns. As I said before, we won't argue whether Honor Harrington would surrender or throw the journalists to the rabid ma-lions.

It is fascinating to watch you debate yourself. You are not just of two minds, but perhaps four or five. Here are the points I think are key:

"No, I do not think journalists were invited to go on this trip".
"But we do know that Audrey was aboard ship with Honor".

So lets examine Honor and wonder; how can she invite Audrey, but refuse to invite other war correspondents? Why did Honor behave this way? You did say "Honor had to invite Audrey", but why is that true if journalists are not to be invited?

tlb wrote:

penny wrote:Perhaps. Maybe. But we do know that Audrey was aboard ship with Honor. If Audrey was alone with Honor then that would have given Audrey the scoop. Reporters don't like getting scooped. It does not bode well for their career. And if they are going to risk their life and travel to God only knows where, then it's only fair that they do not get scooped.

Again, I'm not against embedding reporters
into war. Except in this case. In this case there were too many unknowns. And I can't take anybody’s word in the forum. You guys essentially think its cool for Honor to hyper in system then lumber around coddling a freighter … an escorted ship of journalists. Honor doesn't need that responsibility. Honor went to Galton to wage war, not to escort a cargo full of journalists!

Oh ... I forgot ... everyone charges me for thinking that Honor will care more about the journalists – who signed on for the trip and accepted the dangers – rather than her mission.

And let's be practical. How many of those journalists really thought they would be in any danger as a guest of the most brilliant officer in the galaxy on a ship in the most powerful alliance in existence.

No! That isn't what I am saying at all. I am saying that the specimen under the microscope is Honor. The question becomes “What will Honor do?” If push comes to shove and wedge comes to wedge, Honor will save the shipload of journalists from themselves even if she has to adopt a tactic she wouldn't adopt if she were alone without civilians to care for. Honor would end up losing a ship with all hands to save a bunch of civilians. Honor was going to Galton to wage war. Not to babysit.

Also, Honor had to invite Audrey. If journalists were already invited to tag along then surely Audrey would have needed no invitation. It is possible Honor invited her as a personal gesture to get firsthand information. The scoop. I admit that as a possibility. Just not likely, for a whole host of reasons I've already mentioned. No, I do not think journalists were invited to go on this trip.

And finally, to address the glaring bull in the China shop, a MAlign entity with no scruples, morals or treaties, would have used those reporters like pawns. As I said before, we won't argue whether Honor Harrington would surrender or throw the journalists to the rabid ma-lions.

It is fascinating to watch you debate yourself. You are not just of two minds, but perhaps four or five. Here are the points I think are key:

"No, I do not think journalists were invited to go on this trip".
"But we do know that Audrey was aboard ship with Honor".

So lets examine Honor and wonder; how can she invite Audrey, but refuse to invite other war correspondents? Why did Honor behave this way? You did say "Honor had to invite Audrey", but why is that true if journalists are not to be invited?

You read the line rightly but digested it wrongly. To go along, Audrey had to receive an invitation from Honor.

penny wrote:
Perhaps. Maybe. But we do know that Audrey was aboard ship with Honor. If Audrey was alone with Honor then that would have given Audrey the scoop. Reporters don't like getting scooped. It does not bode well for their career. And if they are going to risk their life and travel to God only knows where, then it's only fair that they do not get scooped.

Again, I'm not against embedding reporters
into war. Except in this case. In this case there were too many unknowns. And I can't take anybody’s word in the forum. You guys essentially think its cool for Honor to hyper in system then lumber around coddling a freighter … an escorted ship of journalists. Honor doesn't need that responsibility. Honor went to Galton to wage war, not to escort a cargo full of journalists!

Oh ... I forgot ... everyone charges me for thinking that Honor will care more about the journalists – who signed on for the trip and accepted the dangers – rather than her mission.

And let's be practical. How many of those journalists really thought they would be in any danger as a guest of the most brilliant officer in the galaxy on a ship in the most powerful alliance in existence.

No! That isn't what I am saying at all. I am saying that the specimen under the microscope is Honor. The question becomes “What will Honor do?” If push comes to shove and wedge comes to wedge, Honor will save the shipload of journalists from themselves even if she has to adopt a tactic she wouldn't adopt if she were alone without civilians to care for. Honor would end up losing a ship with all hands to save a bunch of civilians. Honor was going to Galton to wage war. Not to babysit.

Also, Honor had to invite Audrey. If journalists were already invited to tag along then surely Audrey would have needed no invitation. It is possible Honor invited her as a personal gesture to get firsthand information. The scoop. I admit that as a possibility. Just not likely, for a whole host of reasons I've already mentioned. No, I do not think journalists were invited to go on this trip.

And finally, to address the glaring bull in the China shop, a MAlign entity with no scruples, morals or treaties, would have used those reporters like pawns. As I said before, we won't argue whether Honor Harrington would surrender or throw the journalists to the rabid ma-lions.

Embedded reporters might be unhappy about being scooped -- but they get embedded where the military embeds them. If ordered spread out to different ships they'll be on different ships.

Saying that we think they wouldn't all be concentrated on Honor's flagship is not the same thing as saying they'd be on "a freighter … an escorted ship of journalists". I think they'd be distributed across various capital ships of the fleet.
Yes that means they don't all get as close contact with Honor, but some would have better contact with her squadron commanders; or the Allied units; given them each a unique take on their story.

And any who thought they'd be guaranteed to be safe riding with Honor clearly paid zero attention to her reputation as the Salamander for "death rides", to the casualty and loss information from previous fleet battles, or to the briefings they doubtless got on the risks of embedding onto those ships.

As for what Honor will do? Her duty. Which requires risking her fleet to accomplish the mission and does not allow her to put any part of her fleet at higher risk to specially protected embedded journalists who've given informed consent to share the risks of her sailors in order to report on the war.

tlb wrote:It is fascinating to watch you debate yourself. You are not just of two minds, but perhaps four or five. Here are the points I think are key:

"No, I do not think journalists were invited to go on this trip".
"But we do know that Audrey was aboard ship with Honor".

So lets examine Honor and wonder; how can she invite Audrey, but refuse to invite other war correspondents? Why did Honor behave this way? You did say "Honor had to invite Audrey", but why is that true if journalists are not to be invited?

penny wrote:You read the line rightly but digested it wrongly. To go along, Audrey had to receive an invitation from Honor.

I agree that Honor invited Audrey, otherwise she could not be on the flagship. You are the one that digested what I wrote wrong. I will try to rewrite the question, so you can understand what I an asking.

Why did Honor invite Audrey, when you say that Honor cannot invite journalists?

tlb wrote:

tlb wrote:It is fascinating to watch you debate yourself. You are not just of two minds, but perhaps four or five. Here are the points I think are key:

"No, I do not think journalists were invited to go on this trip".
"But we do know that Audrey was aboard ship with Honor".

So lets examine Honor and wonder; how can she invite Audrey, but refuse to invite other war correspondents? Why did Honor behave this way? You did say "Honor had to invite Audrey", but why is that true if journalists are not to be invited?

penny wrote:You read the line rightly but digested it wrongly. To go along, Audrey had to receive an invitation from Honor.

I agree that Honor invited Audrey, otherwise she could not be on the flagship. You are the one that digested what I wrote wrong. I will try to rewrite the question, so you can understand what I an asking.

Why did Honor invite Audrey, when you say that Honor cannot invite journalists?

I did not say that either. I said I do not think reporters were invited, in general. But Honor can invite anyone she wants. And she wanted to invite Audrey for a specific reason. I got the impression of that in the discussion with Audrey. She also wanted a reporter who she trusts to cover the confrontation. I also got the impression that Audrey was trusted among her peers. If Audrey reports on something and the piece takes on a certain slant, everyone is likely to believe what Audrey reports. Honor used Audrey as her own pawn. She was a political strategy and hole card. Her opinion holds the weight of a gaggle of other reporters.