Honor Harrington's Aristocratic Style

Another thing I'd like to flesh out. I really am shocked that Beth didn't know about Honor's heritage. As I said, I personally have no doubt that Michelle knew. And I assume that Michelle would have told Beth. With Honor's consent, of course. If need be. But I really didn't think Beth would have needed Michelle to tell her. I thought Beth would have every student at the Academy fully vetted within the most stringent requirements of Palace security, in addition to the stringent standards I assume the Academy would require for admittance. In addition to the Office of Naval Intelligence. Especially any prospective roommate of Michelle's. After all, Michelle's roommate would be visiting the Palace as Michelle's guest and gaining close access to the Queen.

Does anyone in the forum actually think that Honor being chosen as Michelle's roommate is a coincidence? As far as each of them is concerned, they both got the perfect roommate. Was that coincidence, computer generation, or naval intelligence?

BTW, isn't a full background check a prerequisite for admittance into the Academy? If not, the Academy would be a perfect place to insert a spy from the ground up. A sleeper, sleeping all through the Academy. At any rate, I simply find it far too big of a coincidence that Michelle and Honor became roommates at the Academy. A huge coincidence even.

What is your mileage?


PS

In addition, doesn't each applicant fall under full disclosure? Lying on your application is terms for dismissal. I cannot imagine a full vetting by ONI wouldn't flush out everything there is to know about Miss Harrington.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

penny wrote:OMG! I almost forgot about that passage! I had been looking for it! Because she finally admits the attempted rape!

Thanks tlb! And you are right, that is a tongue lashing, and in front of an audience of his peers!

It helps if you've just finished reading Toll of Honor.

I've captured the pheasant w/o plucking the pleasant dear sire. What be this feast ye speak of yon squire?

penny wrote:OMG! I almost forgot about that passage! I had been looking for it! Because she finally admits the attempted rape!

Thanks tlb! And you are right, that is a tongue lashing, and in front of an audience of his peers!

ThinksMarkedly wrote:It helps if you've just finished reading Toll of Honor.

penny wrote:I've captured the pheasant w/o plucking the pleasant dear sire. What be this feast in Toll of Honor ye speak, yon squire?

Of particular interest here, it contains a line for line repeat of her challenge; with additional information on how she was able to sneak into the House of Lords and use an obscure rule to speak.

penny wrote:Another thing I'd like to flesh out. I really am shocked that Beth didn't know about Honor's heritage. As I said, I personally have no doubt that Michelle knew. And I assume that Michelle would have told Beth. With Honor's consent, of course. If need be. But I really didn't think Beth would have needed Michelle to tell her. I thought Beth would have every student at the Academy fully vetted within the most stringent requirements of Palace security, in addition to the stringent standards I assume the Academy would require for admittance. In addition to the Office of Naval Intelligence. Especially any prospective roommate of Michelle's. After all, Michelle's roommate would be visiting the Palace as Michelle's guest and gaining close access to the Queen.

Does anyone in the forum actually think that Honor being chosen as Michelle's roommate is a coincidence? As far as each of them is concerned, they both got the perfect roommate. Was that coincidence, computer generation, or naval intelligence?

BTW, isn't a full background check a prerequisite for admittance into the Academy? If not, the Academy would be a perfect place to insert a spy from the ground up. A sleeper, sleeping all through the Academy. At any rate, I simply find it far too big of a coincidence that Michelle and Honor became roommates at the Academy. A huge coincidence even.

What is your mileage?


PS

In addition, doesn't each applicant fall under full disclosure? Lying on your application is terms for dismissal. I cannot imagine a full vetting by ONI wouldn't flush out everything there is to know about Miss Harrington.

A full background check on each student (Which I agree they'd do) is different that personally briefing the Queen on the details of those background checks (much less briefing a royal cadet on the full background of her roommate).

If there had been a security concern in general the applicant simply wouldn't have been admitted. If there was a concern about proximity to a royal heir then the room assignments would have been adjusted.
But in neither case would that require personally briefing the Monarch or the royal cadet.


However the Wintons go to pretty Signiant length to expose even the heir to regular people (after all they're required to marry one -- which kind of requires exposure) and Michelle in particular is touchy about anything smacking of nepotism. So I suspect that, outside of screening out some cadets ahead of time, they try to leave the rest of the academy experience (including roommate assignment) as similar as possible to that of every other cadet.

(Though they might specifically avoid giving a Winton a roommate from the nobility -- just screen all of them out beforehand)


So I chalk Honor and Michelle being roommates up more to the power of plot than to specific match matching by the Academy, Beth, or even the Royal Household or intelligence services.

tlb wrote:However she was forced to receive the PMV from the High Ridge government after saving the Queen and the Protector from a Masadan assassination attempt sponsored by Haven. The previous threat to resign, would have been welcomed by the new Prime Minister.

The previous times, she argued she was only doing her job as a navy officer.

During this time, however, she was aboard her private yacht.

tlb wrote:However she was forced to receive the PMV from the High Ridge government after saving the Queen and the Protector from a Masadan assassination attempt sponsored by Haven. The previous threat to resign, would have been welcomed by the new Prime Minister.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:The previous times, she argued she was only doing her job as a navy officer.

During this time, however, she was aboard her private yacht.

And doing her job as the Protector's Champion. But you are right, we do not know if she still objected.

penny wrote:
...

Does anyone in the forum actually think that Honor being chosen as Michelle's roommate is a coincidence? As far as each of them is concerned, they both got the perfect roommate. Was that coincidence, computer generation, or naval intelligence?

...

I have wondered if Jacques had suggested to the Commandant of the Academy that his niece would have a roommate that meant certain qualifications (e.g., familiarity with treecats).

A good point about the Manticorian heir having to marry a commoner. The series does imply the absurdity of hereditary royalty and aristocracy. Even in England (not Britian) the Royals tend to have an affinity with the people rather than the aristocracy. The ultimate royal (earned as well as inherited) was Elizabeth 11. She is reliably reputed to say about Princess Michael of Kent (a blow in), "Oh, she's much too grand for the likes of us".
Current DNA testing has brought up a few interesting points, and I'm sure that in the Honorverse it is a much finer art.
In my case I found aristocracy on both sides, that was later confirmed by family trees. Not really spoken about in egalitarian Australia as it is regarded as embarressing to be part of "Those inbred chinless wonders".
The Malign have their own aristocracy with Alpha, Betas, Gammas, and the rest. Interesting in the last couple of pages of Uncompromising Honor they talk about "Those idiot Detwiellers". I have always thought that the idea of genetic super men is flawed. If not then where are Issac Newton's, Darwin's, Tesla's Einstein's and many more dynasties?

penny wrote:Does anyone in the forum actually think that Honor being chosen as Michelle's roommate is a coincidence? As far as each of them is concerned, they both got the perfect roommate. Was that coincidence, computer generation, or naval intelligence?

Robert_A_Woodward wrote:I have wondered if Jacques had suggested to the Commandant of the Academy that his niece would have a roommate that meant certain qualifications (e.g., familiarity with treecats).

As far as treecats go, I would expect the Academy to already have a policy; without requiring anyone to make a suggestion. We have no reason to think that Uncle Jacques was paying close attention to Honor at that time.

Jonathan_S wrote:

penny wrote:Another thing I'd like to flesh out. I really am shocked that Beth didn't know about Honor's heritage. As I said, I personally have no doubt that Michelle knew. And I assume that Michelle would have told Beth. With Honor's consent, of course. If need be. But I really didn't think Beth would have needed Michelle to tell her. I thought Beth would have every student at the Academy fully vetted within the most stringent requirements of Palace security, in addition to the stringent standards I assume the Academy would require for admittance. In addition to the Office of Naval Intelligence. Especially any prospective roommate of Michelle's. After all, Michelle's roommate would be visiting the Palace as Michelle's guest and gaining close access to the Queen.

Does anyone in the forum actually think that Honor being chosen as Michelle's roommate is a coincidence? As far as each of them is concerned, they both got the perfect roommate. Was that coincidence, computer generation, or naval intelligence?

BTW, isn't a full background check a prerequisite for admittance into the Academy? If not, the Academy would be a perfect place to insert a spy from the ground up. A sleeper, sleeping all through the Academy. At any rate, I simply find it far too big of a coincidence that Michelle and Honor became roommates at the Academy. A huge coincidence even.

What is your mileage?


PS

In addition, doesn't each applicant fall under full disclosure? Lying on your application is terms for dismissal. I cannot imagine a full vetting by ONI wouldn't flush out everything there is to know about Miss Harrington.

A full background check on each student (Which I agree they'd do) is different that personally briefing the Queen on the details of those background checks (much less briefing a royal cadet on the full background of her roommate).

If there had been a security concern in general the applicant simply wouldn't have been admitted. If there was a concern about proximity to a royal heir then the room assignments would have been adjusted.
But in neither case would that require personally briefing the Monarch or the royal cadet.


However the Wintons go to pretty Signiant length to expose even the heir to regular people (after all they're required to marry one -- which kind of requires exposure) and Michelle in particular is touchy about anything smacking of nepotism. So I suspect that, outside of screening out some cadets ahead of time, they try to leave the rest of the academy experience (including roommate assignment) as similar as possible to that of every other cadet.

(Though they might specifically avoid giving a Winton a roommate from the nobility -- just screen all of them out beforehand)


So I chalk Honor and Michelle being roommates up more to the power of plot than to specific match matching by the Academy, Beth, or even the Royal Household or intelligence services.

How would they know if there is a security threat without initiating the vetting process? The rigorous screening process would uncover lots of information.

Students would be entitled to their privacy, I agree. For the most part and within reason. So no, Michelle would not have been informed of anything that the background checks would have discovered about Honor or of anything that Honor included on her application. Michelle would find out the old fashioned way as far as best friends go; she'd earn it, out of trust and loyalty. And in Honor’s case, necessity.

Text says that Honor's secret as a genie was kept a secret. It is still information not readily volunteered. The galaxy seems to be a bit prejudiced against genies. Even the Queen keeps the content of her genetic makeup under wraps.

This is something I don't quite understand. The King and Queen of Manticore are genies. Why would they need to keep it a secret that they are? They set policy. Surely nobody could disparage the King or Queen of Manticore for the content of their genetic makeup, color of their skin or religious affiliation.

But it IS what it IS, if the King / Queen of Manticore had to hide their genetic status. Certainly Honor needed to do so as well. In addition, Honor probably would not want to readily volunteer the fact that she is a Commoner. Manticoran society likes to gossip and say ugly things about Commoners. They gave King Roger's wife the nickname of “little beggar maid.”

Probably everyone in the forum has experienced University life. Dorms, cafeterias, exam week, social life, clubs, extracurricular activities, sports events, dating and the opposite sex. I don't see there being any way that Honor could have hidden certain things about herself, like her high metabolism for one. Especially during exam week. Studying burns lots of calories, and Honor would have been sucking food up like a Hoover vacuum cleaner. And if she'd spent any time in the cafeteria, she'd have caused a scene. A black hole gobbling up everything in its vicinity is noticeable. So, Honor probably had a lot of food stashed in her room. Snacks everywhere. And Michelle undoubtedly catered to that bottomless pit as well. There is no way Honor could have withheld certain information from a curious roommate who is always asking questions. Especially when she would have needed Michelle to help her steal food. Honor would not have wanted everyone to know she is a genie.

Then there is her athletic prowess. Did Honor participate in any sports?; where she undoubtedly would have excelled far above the rest.

Then there is Nimitz. Would all the other students have felt comfortable having an animal hanging out in the cafeteria? And if they liked Nimitz, why didn't Honor have friends? The plot thickens.

But I find it difficult to believe that the powers that be would not have seen fit to ensure that Michelle Henke was protected. Especially since the Royal family had a tradition of joining the Navy. And that means having a suitable roommate. I am going to hazard a guess that all of us have experienced the occasional roommate from Hell.

In summary, I simply cannot accept that Michelle’s time at the Academy was not “regulated” from afar. Her parents and Queen Elizabeth has a right to request the record of any student who would be in the sphere of "she who is fifth in line for secession." And they would have, lest they hate themselves later if something had happened. And Especially since the Havenites set a precedent for an assassination of a head of state.

And it wouldn't have had anything to do with meddling or nepotism. It would have to do with security and protocol.

So, it is difficult to swallow that Beth didn't know. Could it be that Beth simply has a mean poker face perhaps? Even if possibly with Monroe's help?


Ugly text version of site again.


Late edit: Come to think of it. There would have been a lot of jealousies mounted against Honor as a result of her being Michelle's roommate. That might have had something to do with her lack of friends, thinking they couldn't trust her not to gossip about them to Royalty. And it might have marked the beginning of Honor's enemies.