SLN, and MAlign playing catch up with Manticoran superiority

kzt wrote:Well, that’s ok, we captured the storage system on the planet. It’s encrypted, but I’m sure we’ll fix that, though perhaps a little memory simulation might be needed. Or will it?

I don't think that works. When Mike Henke captured Byng's ships in New Tuscany, she deliberately triggered the wipes after downloading the data. What we heard about this is that the molycircs at that point basically returned to their factory-default state and were irrecoverable. So no, I don't think you can un-wipe data.

Because they have backups off-system, there's no actual loss of information to the GA if they decide to wipe every copy, except for maybe the last week or so of updates. And therefore, there's no reason for them not to wipe every copy if they're under attack and likely to be overrun.

Daryl wrote:In a real Honorverse scenario, do you think that the Powers That Be won't have considered all of this?
The LDs arrive undetected, perform a sneak attack, then declare their hand, at which point the stealthed fleet of SDs lights up their wedges and trashes the LDs.

If their wedges are down when more stealthy technology invades their system and sits and watches before attacking, then that fleet of SDs is a fleet of scrap metal. No need to light up their wedges, the LDs will light 'em up for 'em.

Daryl wrote:In a real Honorverse scenario, do you think that the Powers That Be won't have considered all of this?
The LDs arrive undetected, perform a sneak attack, then declare their hand, at which point the stealthed fleet of SDs lights up their wedges and trashes the LDs.

penny wrote:If their wedges are down when more stealthy technology invades their system and sits and watches before attacking, then that fleet of SDs is a fleet of scrap metal. No need to light up their wedges, the LDs will light 'em up for 'em.

That requires finding them first. There's a difference between wedges down in a parking orbit where everyone can see you, and stealthed out somewhere where you can't be found.

Though that does imply they can't be close to the LDs. The missiles have to be several minutes away at a minimum, which is a long time. Then again, you don't need a battle fleet to fire missiles at decloaking LDs: you have system defence missiles out there that can be controlled from the ground.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

Daryl wrote:In a real Honorverse scenario, do you think that the Powers That Be won't have considered all of this?
The LDs arrive undetected, perform a sneak attack, then declare their hand, at which point the stealthed fleet of SDs lights up their wedges and trashes the LDs.

penny wrote:If their wedges are down when more stealthy technology invades their system and sits and watches before attacking, then that fleet of SDs is a fleet of scrap metal. No need to light up their wedges, the LDs will light 'em up for 'em.

That requires finding them first. There's a difference between wedges down in a parking orbit where everyone can see you, and stealthed out somewhere where you can't be found.

Though that does imply they can't be close to the LDs. The missiles have to be several minutes away at a minimum, which is a long time. Then again, you don't need a battle fleet to fire missiles at decloaking LDs: you have system defence missiles out there that can be controlled from the ground.

Decloaking LDs? Why would an LD decloak? It shouldn't have to decloak to send a... shuttle?

At any rate, are you presuming an LD would enter a system and immediately fire after it gets a solution instead of seeding the galaxy with probes to see what it can see? Like targets of opportunity.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
That requires finding them first. There's a difference between wedges down in a parking orbit where everyone can see you, and stealthed out somewhere where you can't be found.

Though that does imply they can't be close to the LDs. The missiles have to be several minutes away at a minimum, which is a long time. Then again, you don't need a battle fleet to fire missiles at decloaking LDs: you have system defence missiles out there that can be controlled from the ground.

If the wedges are down they are glowing red hot.

penny wrote:At any rate, are you presuming an LD would enter a system and immediately fire after it gets a solution instead of seeding the galaxy with probes to see what it can see? Like targets of opportunity.

I'm not presuming that. I am however realising that a stellar system is a huge volume and finding a fleet that is in stealth is not easy. Which is why I said that an effective stealth means you can't be somewhere which will obviously be searched by those probes, which in turn means your reaction time to a sudden situation change is also long.

The question on the MAlign is just how good their probes are. Unlike wedge recon drones, a spider probe has acceleration that is on the same order of magnitude of ships, so it may not be able to take evasive actions against a ship it's just stumbled upon. It may continue closing and thus become detectable by said ship.

penny wrote:Decloaking LDs? Why would an LD decloak? It shouldn't have to decloak to send a... shuttle?

At any rate, are you presuming an LD would enter a system and immediately fire after it gets a solution instead of seeding the galaxy with probes to see what it can see? Like targets of opportunity.

The cloaking system has to store generated heat somewhere and then radiate it, which leads to 2 situations:

1. Using the cloaking so far out that they can safely radiate heat away from the system which kind of makes the need for a cloak a bit redundant.
2. Using the cloak to avoid detection in system which means they can't radiate heat which limits the time they can be cloaked.

Also, remember that cloak and stealth aren't exactly the same thing.

Seeding a system with probes also increases the risk of detection which means any surprise attack my be stunted.

Joat42 wrote:The cloaking system has to store generated heat somewhere and then radiate it, which leads to 2 situations:

1. Using the cloaking so far out that they can safely radiate heat away from the system which kind of makes the need for a cloak a bit redundant.
2. Using the cloak to avoid detection in system which means they can't radiate heat which limits the time they can be cloaked.

Also, remember that cloak and stealth aren't exactly the same thing.

Seeding a system with probes also increases the risk of detection which means any surprise attack my be stunted.

We saw the discussion of cloaking using stealth smart paint and heat dispersal in chapter 9 of Mission of Honor, with regard to the Ghost class ships operating around Grayson. The main limitation, while operating in system, was to prevent the opposing force from sighting the heat exhaust; either directly or by drones.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

penny wrote:At any rate, are you presuming an LD would enter a system and immediately fire after it gets a solution instead of seeding the galaxy with probes to see what it can see? Like targets of opportunity.

I'm not presuming that. I am however realising that a stellar system is a huge volume and finding a fleet that is in stealth is not easy. Which is why I said that an effective stealth means you can't be somewhere which will obviously be searched by those probes, which in turn means your reaction time to a sudden situation change is also long.

The question on the MAlign is just how good their probes are. Unlike wedge recon drones, a spider probe has acceleration that is on the same order of magnitude of ships, so it may not be able to take evasive actions against a ship it's just stumbled upon. It may continue closing and thus become detectable by said ship.

I don't think the probes will be detected. Especially if the MA enjoys a certain breakthrough that they alleged they were close to achieving, like the microfusion tech. And as a result, they introduce a deadlier iteration of the Silver Bullet. As is, the Silver Bullets operated with impunity and located the Mycroft Platforms by the time the party started without being detected. And the SBs are presently as big as Lacs. Surely they can be dropped off in the system ahead of time and locate an entire fleet of SDs rather easily without being detected. And the SBs accomplished their stealthy feat with the Mycroft Platforms during DefCon 1. Finding an entire fleet of SDs during peacetime should be a piece of cake with the icing.

Just as well that Bolthole doesn't have a pair of Tech Witches that will be driving continual development of systems?
Oh, wait?
To be fair, this universe is owned by RFC, and it all depends on his vision. I suspect that he drops in on these forums to seek inspiration, but the outcome will still definitely be his.