Spoilers - Toll of Honor

tlb wrote:The slave that sold out other slaves would be an international criminal; so why wouldn't the Ballroom provide any information that they had to the police instead of to the Youngs? In particular, since the Youngs' political leanings would be opposed to the slave freedom agenda that motivated the Ballroom, why would they work with the Youngs?

Well the Ballroom is an illegal interstellar terrorist organization - that might make it a bit harder to work with the police. They might work with the Youngs for money, or for intel.

And they might have just been spreading info about the slave that betrayed a shipload of other slaves in the hopes of flushing her out -- in which case the more widely they spread the info the better. (So police or the Youngs might not be an either/or situation; but rather a both)

tlb wrote:The slave that sold out other slaves would be an international criminal; so why wouldn't the Ballroom provide any information that they had to the police instead of to the Youngs? In particular, since the Youngs' political leanings would be opposed to the slave freedom agenda that motivated the Ballroom, why would they work with the Youngs?

Jonathan_S wrote:Well the Ballroom is an illegal interstellar terrorist organization - that might make it a bit harder to work with the police. They might work with the Youngs for money, or for intel.

And they might have just been spreading info about the slave that betrayed a shipload of other slaves in the hopes of flushing her out -- in which case the more widely they spread the info the better. (So police or the Youngs might not be an either/or situation; but rather a both)

Even an "interstellar terrorist organization" will have contacts (such as Catherine Montaigne) that could serve as an intermediary with the police. The problem with the Youngs is that their database is used to gain power through blackmail and not to flush out anyone. I simply do not see the Ballroom working to give power to them; particularly when we know that the Youngs are more likely to patronize Manpower Inc (see "From the Highlands"), than to work to oppose slavery.

tlb wrote:Even an "interstellar terrorist organization" will have contacts (such as Catherine Montaigne) that could serve as an intermediary with the police. The problem with the Youngs is that their database is used to gain power through blackmail and not to flush out anyone. I simply do not see the Ballroom working to give power to them; particularly when we know that the Youngs are more likely to patronize Manpower Inc (see "From the Highlands"), than to work to oppose slavery.

Is there any textev at all pointing to the Ballroom being the source of information for the Youngs? There might be other criminals selling information to everyone with the right amount of money.

markusschaber wrote:

tlb wrote:Even an "interstellar terrorist organization" will have contacts (such as Catherine Montaigne) that could serve as an intermediary with the police. The problem with the Youngs is that their database is used to gain power through blackmail and not to flush out anyone. I simply do not see the Ballroom working to give power to them; particularly when we know that the Youngs are more likely to patronize Manpower Inc (see "From the Highlands"), than to work to oppose slavery.

Is there any textev at all pointing to the Ballroom being the source of information for the Youngs? There might be other criminals selling information to everyone with the right amount of money.

Un-known, apparently Toll of Honor indicates that between the events of the the Court Marshal and before he steps on the field to face Harrington, (in Field of Dishonor), he (Pavel) mentions to Elaine Komandorski/Georgia Sakristos that he knows that she is the Genetic Slave that sold out a freighter of Slaves (the information Anton uses to get her to destroy the Young files) however in Field of Dishonor, Pavel ("on screen") only references her time on Manticore where she engaged in corporate espionage and was involved in the death of a Landing City Law Enforcement Officer.

We are speculating as to how Pavel father Dmitri could have found this out, without Elaine Komandorski/Georgia Sakristos being aware.

Though it mostly likely a continuation error (i.e., the Youngs shouldn't know this information), it's "fun" to think that Dmitri did know of Elaine Komandorski/Georgia Sakristos past (or at least an event in it) and choose (again) to put his interests ahead of doing the right thing.

And that Pavel, was willing to use said information to "keep Elaine Komandorski/Georgia Sakristos loyal"

Garth 2 wrote:

markusschaber wrote:Is there any textev at all pointing to the Ballroom being the source of information for the Youngs? There might be other criminals selling information to everyone with the right amount of money.

Un-known, apparently Toll of Honor indicates that between the events of the the Court Marshal and before he steps on the field to face Harrington, (in Field of Dishonor), he (Pavel) mentions to Elaine Komandorski/Georgia Sakristos that he knows that she is the Genetic Slave that sold out a freighter of Slaves (the information Anton uses to get her to destroy the Young files) however in Field of Dishonor, Pavel ("on screen") only references her time on Manticore where she engaged in corporate espionage and was involved in the death of a Landing City Law Enforcement Officer.

We are speculating as to how Pavel father Dmitri could have found this out, without Elaine Komandorski/Georgia Sakristos being aware.

Though it mostly likely a continuation error (i.e., the Youngs shouldn't know this information), it's "fun" to think that Dmitri did know of Elaine Komandorski/Georgia Sakristos past (or at least an event in it) and choose (again) to put his interests ahead of doing the right thing.

And that Pavel, was willing to use said information to "keep Elaine Komandorski/Georgia Sakristos loyal"

So I'm right there's no real textev pointing to the Ballroom as source - the Ballroom would have just killed her, or brought the evidence to the police through their contacts, not sold it.

The Youngs most probably have other sources, criminals and private inestigators selling secrets instead of using them to blackmail the victims on their own - lower payout, but much safer.

One possibility is that - initially - Dimitri only knew about part of Georgias criminal past, but still enough to blackmail her. He gained the knowledge about her slave deal later, and added it to the files.

Another possibility is that he knew everyhting, but only used part of it to blackmail her, keeping the full truth in reserve, so he could enlarge the lever whenever Georgia seems to think about getting naughty. And Pavel simply lacks rafinesse, and told the whole truth.

markusschaber wrote:
So I'm right there's no real textev pointing to the Ballroom as source - the Ballroom would have just killed her, or brought the evidence to the police through their contacts, not sold it.

The Youngs most probably have other sources, criminals and private inestigators selling secrets instead of using them to blackmail the victims on their own - lower payout, but much safer.

<snip>.

Actually it makes sense that the ball room doesn't know about her - they are the only group who Georgia fears.

If the info comes out, it hurts her reputation - but she doesn't have a social reputation, she has a darker one as a fixer. Making the knowledge public might give her a public black eye, but won't effect her social standing or ability to do her job, so she's not afraid of the Manty public knowing what happened.

Giving that info to the Manty authorities (or others) will not affect her - most likely there is no law against letting Manpower know about former slaves. She didn't haul them in or trade them herself, she just profited from passing info on them. How many escaped slaves only escaped because another slave got caught in their stead? No, there are no laws which will indite her, so she's not afraid of the Law.

What she is afraid of is what other slaves will do to her if they find out who she really is. If any slave hears the truth, the Ballroom will find out, sooner or later. And if the Ballroom had any ilking who she was, she would be dead. So the info didn't come from the Ballroom.

[quote="Theemile"][quote="markusschaber"]

So I'm right there's no real textev pointing to the Ballroom as source - the Ballroom would have just killed her, or brought the evidence to the police through their contacts, not sold it.

Dimitri had the information in his Files, source unknown. Anton found it on Smoking Frog after the earthside issue with his daughter. Who she was before Elaine is a ManPower Property with an ID barcode on her tongue, and nameless.

I bought "Toll of Honor" from amazon and find some arithmetic issues that the proofreaders missed:
on page 478 (October 9, 1906) "destroyed twenty Peep ships-of-the-wall--seventeen superdreadnoughts and thirteen dreadnoughts" seems a bit too far off even if the author is channeling (honoring?) the stead-holders arithmetic.
on page 495 the main fleet is altering course 270.0.0 and the screen is sent to 900.0.0 when it should be 090.0.0. these are relative to current vector and splits the fleet into an escaping fast group and the main body which will get hammered and escape. Not something an english major would catch.

A fine tale. The heroine at the end seemed to get promoted a bit quickly.

phillies wrote:A fine tale. The heroine at the end seemed to get promoted a bit quickly.

Remember that she had been serving as the chief engineer for a heavy cruiser while still a lieutenant (which probably was a Lt. Commander slot at least) for a year by the last chapter.

markusschaber wrote:The Youngs most probably have other sources, criminals and private inestigators selling secrets instead of using them to blackmail the victims on their own - lower payout, but much safer.

One possibility is that - initially - Dimitri only knew about part of Georgias criminal past, but still enough to blackmail her. He gained the knowledge about her slave deal later, and added it to the files.

Another possibility is that he knew everyhting, but only used part of it to blackmail her, keeping the full truth in reserve, so he could enlarge the lever whenever Georgia seems to think about getting naughty. And Pavel simply lacks rafinesse, and told the whole truth.

Someone must have done cosmetic surgery on her, to alter her appearance from Elaine into Georgia and to remove the genetic marker. So there's at least one source in the shady, Landing City underground. That's a loose end that Georgia would have tried to eliminate because it could trace her life past to Elaine, but she may not have had the ability or opportunity to do so before the information got added to the North Hollow files. My guess is this happened before she came into their employment, because she wouldn't risk going to them before cutting those loose ends in the first place.

But once working for them, they would have helped her in cleaning up even further. At that point, their goals aligned: North Hollow wouldn't want someone to accidentally discover the truth about someone in his employment because it would serve as leverage against him. Georgia was too visible in his household. Past Pavel's death, Georgia/Elaine would have taken even further action, because having accessed those selfsame files to delete them, she would know where the links were.

So this explains why Anton Zilwicki had trouble tracking down the source: there was too little in Landing.