Is there a reason RFC is "against" AI in the Honorverse?

tlb wrote:I think we need to be clearer what AI means and what part of it is excluded from the Honorverse.

Artificial Intelligence: (noun) the theory and development of computer systems able to perform tasks that normally require human intelligence, such as visual perception, speech recognition, decision-making, and translation between languages.

I believe that as of OBS, we already have a computer that can translate back and forth between the language of the humans and that of the natives of Basilisk. We also have computers that handle most tasks of operating a ship (which allowed cutting way back on crew size) and by the time of the Apollo Missile, computers that can handle (without human input) all phases of the final attack on an enemy fleet.

So we do have many of the attributes of AI, but we do not have machine "consciousness". We do not have crew-less ships making hyper-space transitions nor carrying either freight or passengers.

I would think the Apollo command module employs some level of AI.

tlb wrote:I think we need to be clearer what AI means and what part of it is excluded from the Honorverse.

Artificial Intelligence: (noun) the theory and development of computer systems able to perform tasks that normally require human intelligence, such as visual perception, speech recognition, decision-making, and translation between languages.

I believe that as of OBS, we already have a computer that can translate back and forth between the language of the humans and that of the natives of Basilisk. We also have computers that handle most tasks of operating a ship (which allowed cutting way back on crew size) and by the time of the Apollo Missile, computers that can handle (without human input) all phases of the final attack on an enemy fleet.

So we do have many of the attributes of AI, but we do not have machine "consciousness". We do not have crew-less ships making hyper-space transitions nor carrying either freight or passengers.

Agreed - The Honorverse has "Brillant Systems" which can analyze data, and do speciliazed, repetitive jobs within programmed bounds.

It does not have cognicent systems with personalities capable of free, original thought.

Mostly I was thinking in terms of a Dahak, a Bolo armored fighting vehicle, or Megaira (Fury) or an Owl (Safehold) an computer generated AI that can act beyond any progammed input, initiate conversations, formulate it's own plans, stuff like that.

I don't necessarily think that he's against them, it's just that he's made good use of them in the past, he must have decided against that complication in the Honorverse.

Mycall4me wrote:Mostly I was thinking in terms of a Dahak, a Bolo armored fighting vehicle, or Megaira (Fury) or an Owl (Safehold) an computer generated AI that can act beyond any progammed input, initiate conversations, formulate it's own plans, stuff like that.

I don't necessarily think that he's against them, it's just that he's made good use of them in the past, he must have decided against that complication in the Honorverse.

The Honorverse is said to be patterned after the age of sail. That level of AI would muddy the waters (no pun intended).

Mycall4me wrote:Mostly I was thinking in terms of a Dahak, a Bolo armored fighting vehicle, or Megaira (Fury) or an Owl (Safehold) an computer generated AI that can act beyond any progammed input, initiate conversations, formulate it's own plans, stuff like that.

I don't necessarily think that he's against them, it's just that he's made good use of them in the past, he must have decided against that complication in the Honorverse.

In Fury Born is a good example because the result is that there are several lead characters: Alicia, Megaira and Tisiphone. In the Honorverse, he wanted just one with a largely silent sidekick in Nimitz. The difference is something like the change with phones from when I was young to now; phones now are an ever encompassing presence compared to something that was just in the background then. Honor uses machines, but her interactions are with people (and cats).

tlb wrote:

Mycall4me wrote:Mostly I was thinking in terms of a Dahak, a Bolo armored fighting vehicle, or Megaira (Fury) or an Owl (Safehold) an computer generated AI that can act beyond any progammed input, initiate conversations, formulate it's own plans, stuff like that.

I don't necessarily think that he's against them, it's just that he's made good use of them in the past, he must have decided against that complication in the Honorverse.

In Fury Born is a good example because the result is that there are several lead characters: Alicia, Megaira and Tisiphone. In the Honorverse, he wanted just one with a largely silent sidekick in Nimitz. The difference is something like the change with phones from when I was young to now; phones now are an ever encompassing presence compared to something that was just in the background then. Honor uses machines, but her interactions are with people (and cats).

I'm old enogh to ONLY have wired phones, I was 18 before the first "brick" portable phones came out.

Mycall4me. I was in my 30s, but had been programming mainframes in punchcards about 18 years prior. That's sort of why I don't follow the slow developement of IT in the Honorverse.
A point is that I couldn't remember Moore's Law until I put in a short question that Google's AI followed up on, before I had finished typing.
Different universe, faster in some things, slower in others.

Daryl wrote:Mycall4me. I was in my 30s, but had been programming mainframes in punchcards about 18 years prior. That's sort of why I don't follow the slow developement of IT in the Honorverse.
A point is that I couldn't remember Moore's Law until I put in a short question that Google's AI followed up on, before I had finished typing.
Different universe, faster in some things, slower in others.

I think we have two different aspects here.

The first is that he clearly underestimated the development of computer science and artificial intelligence when he started the series. (Which is very comprehensible.) On the other hand, some predictions from the sixties, seventies or eighties for the year 2000 are still not fulfilled (and some may never be). Maybe the failure of those predictions had their share in luring RFC into underestimating. And correctly predicting 2000 years into the future is not easy.

The second aspect is that there's no sentient AI. We have some sentient species (with dolphins and great apes amongst them, IIRC, and about two dozen alien ones which humanity found, some of them extinct by now), but we have no artificial sentient AI. As we do not yet know what enables sentience, I think it is possible we might never create artificial sentience. It also might happen more or less by accident (as a lot of creat science breakthroughs did).

Speaking of sentient AI, I can only recommend the web comic series "Questionable Content" by Jeph Jacques.

markusschaber wrote:The first is that he clearly underestimated the development of computer science and artificial intelligence when he started the series. (Which is very comprehensible.) On the other hand, some predictions from the sixties, seventies or eighties for the year 2000 are still not fulfilled (and some may never be). Maybe the failure of those predictions had their share in luring RFC into underestimating. And correctly predicting 2000 years into the future is not easy.

I do not believe that it was an underestimation, but a rejection of computers being a main focus of his stories. I also do not believe that these stories were intended as a "view of tomorrow". Yes, they are set in a future, but not necessarily our future. The computers in the stories are actually immensely capable and powerful, but he preferred to write about the people in this universe and so kept the computers in the background.

Note that both Path of the Fury and On Basilisk Station were published in 1992. So in one story he had a sentient computer and in the other computers were "underestimated" by him? How does that does make sense?

I believe Himself has said that he did not want to write AI's or even drone ships in the Honorverse because he wanted to keep the story about people. People fighting, making decisions and dealing with consequences.

This was in addition to the other primary reason brought up by others, differentiation of the story from other ones he's written.