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Is there a reason RFC is "against" AI in the Honorverse?

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Is there a reason RFC is "against" AI in the Honorverse?
Post by Mycall4me   » Tue Jan 30, 2024 8:15 pm

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RFC points out several times in different Honorverse books that computer science hasn't been able to create true AI.This seem a little bit strange to me, as he's used AI systems in several of his other books (Fury, Dahak, Excaliber Alternative, Bolo)

Do you think it might be he doesn't want to detract from the human input in battles or strategic planning? I think that Honor (or other navy types) could benefit by having an AI to strategize with along with their merely himan partners.

Thoughts, anyone?
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Re: Is there a reason RFC is "against" AI in the Honorverse?
Post by Jonathan_S   » Tue Jan 30, 2024 8:28 pm

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Mycall4me wrote:RFC points out several times in different Honorverse books that computer science hasn't been able to create true AI.This seem a little bit strange to me, as he's used AI systems in several of his other books (Fury, Dahak, Excaliber Alternative, Bolo)

Do you think it might be he doesn't want to detract from the human input in battles or strategic planning? I think that Honor (or other navy types) could benefit by having an AI to strategize with along with their merely himan partners.

Thoughts, anyone?

IIRC He's said at conventions that it was just a way of further distinguishing the Honorverse from some of his earlier (and later) universes which did include AI - like Dahak, Furies, or Safehold.
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Re: Is there a reason RFC is "against" AI in the Honorverse?
Post by Daryl   » Wed Jan 31, 2024 3:01 am

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I believe that the safest way to look at things is the alternative universe model.
After all in our universe we can maintain perhaps 8g accelleration in a 28,000 ton moon rocket for a few minutes. However in the Honorverse a 6MT SD can accellerate at 500g almost indefinitely. Thus not likely to be in our universe, so our AI already surpasses theirs, in balance.
Seek not author detail discrepancies, as RFC has been remarkably consistent over the decades.
In Safehold, Owl is the only true AI as the PICAs are built on human templates, and OWL takes many years to show sentinence.
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Re: Is there a reason RFC is "against" AI in the Honorverse?
Post by Theemile   » Wed Jan 31, 2024 9:23 am

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Jonathan_S wrote:
Mycall4me wrote:RFC points out several times in different Honorverse books that computer science hasn't been able to create true AI.This seem a little bit strange to me, as he's used AI systems in several of his other books (Fury, Dahak, Excaliber Alternative, Bolo)

Do you think it might be he doesn't want to detract from the human input in battles or strategic planning? I think that Honor (or other navy types) could benefit by having an AI to strategize with along with their merely himan partners.

Thoughts, anyone?

IIRC He's said at conventions that it was just a way of further distinguishing the Honorverse from some of his earlier (and later) universes which did include AI - like Dahak, Furies, or Safehold.


Other items, like Antimatter, powered missile pods, and jump drones are other items he uses to differentiate his series.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: Is there a reason RFC is "against" AI in the Honorverse?
Post by tlb   » Wed Jan 31, 2024 9:49 am

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Daryl wrote:After all in our universe we can maintain perhaps 8g accelleration in a 28,000 ton moon rocket for a few minutes. However in the Honorverse a 6MT SD can accellerate at 500g almost indefinitely.

Not "indefinitely", well short of the ultimate speed limit (that of light speed) is the practical limit set by particle shielding (I believe it to be 0.8c). Particle shielding also sets the limit in each of the hyperspace bands.

PS: In Path of the Fury the drive consists of a black hole held in the nose of the ship. I hate this idea, because the fact that it is held means that it cannot accelerate the ship. Even if you say that it is being continually destroyed and recreated farther out, I will still find that ludicrous. There are a number of stories where I hold my nose and hurry past the stink of a bad idea to get to the better part of the narration.
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Re: Is there a reason RFC is "against" AI in the Honorverse?
Post by Jonathan_S   » Wed Jan 31, 2024 10:04 am

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tlb wrote:
Daryl wrote:After all in our universe we can maintain perhaps 8g accelleration in a 28,000 ton moon rocket for a few minutes. However in the Honorverse a 6MT SD can accellerate at 500g almost indefinitely.

Not "indefinitely", well short of the ultimate speed limit (that of light speed) is the practical limit set by particle shielding (I believe it to be 0.8c). Particle shielding also sets the limit in each of the hyperspace bands.

I mean if we're nitpicking 6MT is smaller than any recent Dreadnought we know of - and the smallest known SD is the nearly 2 century old Manticore-class (1742-1905 PD) at 6.5MT.

A ship as small, and thus presumably that old, as a 6MT waller wouldn't seem like it would have been upgraded to a post-Grayson compensator; and so would be accelerating "indefinitely" at only 344g (430g at 0 safety margin emergency power). But yes, even at that lower accel she be accelerating for less than 20 hours before hitting the warship particle screen limit of 0.8c in n-space. (0.6c in hyper. Or with merchant grade shielding those limits drop to 0.6c and 0.5c respectively)
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Re: Is there a reason RFC is "against" AI in the Honorverse?
Post by Daryl   » Thu Feb 01, 2024 3:00 am

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My comment about accellerating indefinitely was related to the drive endurance, not the particle shielding. If RFC had turned to say Poul Anderson's universe of Tau Zero, using a Bussard Ramjet as well as the Honorverse tech would have enabled relatively (deliberate pun) quick approach to C.
Obviously not a good plot device.
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Re: Is there a reason RFC is "against" AI in the Honorverse?
Post by Daryl   » Thu Feb 01, 2024 3:00 am

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My comment about accellerating indefinitely was related to the drive endurance, not the particle shielding. If RFC had turned to say Poul Anderson's universe of Tau Zero, using a Bussard Ramjet as well as the Honorverse tech would have enabled relatively (deliberate pun) quick approach to C.
Obviously not a good plot device.
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Re: Is there a reason RFC is "against" AI in the Honorverse?
Post by penny   » Thu Feb 01, 2024 5:40 am

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Artificial inseminated intelligence? The MAlignment.
.
.
.

The artist formerly known as cthia.

Now I can talk in the third person.
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Re: Is there a reason RFC is "against" AI in the Honorverse?
Post by tlb   » Thu Feb 01, 2024 1:14 pm

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I think we need to be clearer what AI means and what part of it is excluded from the Honorverse.
Artificial Intelligence: (noun) the theory and development of computer systems able to perform tasks that normally require human intelligence, such as visual perception, speech recognition, decision-making, and translation between languages.

I believe that as of OBS, we already have a computer that can translate back and forth between the language of the humans and that of the natives of Basilisk. We also have computers that handle most tasks of operating a ship (which allowed cutting way back on crew size) and by the time of the Apollo Missile, computers that can handle (without human input) all phases of the final attack on an enemy fleet.

So we do have many of the attributes of AI, but we do not have machine "consciousness". We do not have crew-less ships making hyper-space transitions nor carrying either freight or passengers.
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