Commodore Tremaine

Dauntless wrote:A name that doesn't seem to be mentioned is Michael Overgsteen?

He has not had a lot of screen time with Honor, and there is no text for it, but I always got the impression that even before his assignment to Eighth Fleet in command of the first of the new Nike BC that Honor at the very least respected his abilities.

But the current topic is Honor's inner circle. Is Honor having a good opinion of him sufficient to include him in her inner circle? Did he ever work with her?

tlb wrote:But the current topic is Honor's inner circle. Is Honor having a good opinion of him sufficient to include him in her inner circle? Did he ever work with her?

He was assigned to Eighth Fleet for a while, as the captain of HMS Nike, before he and the ship (and Henke) were sent to Tenth Fleet.

At this point, Honor was much senior to him that he wasn't being included in the majority of the strategic discussions. He might have been skippering the most powerful BC, but Eighth Fleet had SD(P)s. So I don't think we should count him as inner circle.

Now, speaking of someone who's worked with him and whom Honor would know even more, Abigail Hearns. Is she "inner circle - The Next Generation?"

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

tlb wrote:But the current topic is Honor's inner circle. Is Honor having a good opinion of him sufficient to include him in her inner circle? Did he ever work with her?

He was assigned to Eighth Fleet for a while, as the captain of HMS Nike, before he and the ship (and Henke) were sent to Tenth Fleet.

At this point, Honor was much senior to him that he wasn't being included in the majority of the strategic discussions. He might have been skippering the most powerful BC, but Eighth Fleet had SD(P)s. So I don't think we should count him as inner circle.

Now, speaking of someone who's worked with him and whom Honor would know even more, Abigail Hearns. Is she "inner circle - The Next Generation?"

Honor did see him when he ordered the Kitanas escorting his division (who were rapidly running out of ammo) to "Abandon your defense of this Division". That sort of thing stands out and shows big picture thinking under pressure, as well as threat appreciation and strategy.
So while she probably does not have a close relationships with him, she does have a good opinion and appreciation of his abilities.

munroburton wrote:Anyway, if you're going to insist upon intimacy then the prize of the highest ranking member of Honor's inner circle has to go to Fleet Admiral(in two navies too!) Hamish Alexander-Harrington.

I think I missed that one. Did Hamish get a honorary title of Fleet Admiral in the GSN? I always thought he's exclusively been serving in RMN.

markusschaber wrote:

munroburton wrote:Anyway, if you're going to insist upon intimacy then the prize of the highest ranking member of Honor's inner circle has to go to Fleet Admiral(in two navies too!) Hamish Alexander-Harrington.

I think I missed that one. Did Hamish get a honorary title of Fleet Admiral in the GSN? I always thought he's exclusively been serving in RMN.

Not a honourary title, a full commission. They gave him it after Operation Buttercup wound up:

the Grayson Space Navy had granted him the rank of Fleet Admiral in its service. He was fully entitled to wear the uniform of his rank—in either navy—whenever he chose, despite the fact that Sir Edward Janacek had seen fit to place him on inactive, half-pay status with indecent speed as one of his first actions as First Lord of the Admiralty. If he could have, Janacek would undoubtedly have attempted to order him not to accept the Grayson promotion, as well. Technically, he had that power, since the Graysons had not made the rank honorary, despite the fact that White Haven was not a Grayson citizen, but not even the High Ridge Government had dared to offer an insult quite that gratuitous to the man who'd won the war.

Analogy time

Honor's inner circle definitely matters. The smallest unit of matter is the atom. The smallest unit of Honor's inner circle is the tight-knitted group aboard HMS Fearless (CL-56).

Atoms were formed by the Big Bang. This atom is no different. It was formed by the Big Bang caused by Klaus Hauptman and Pavel Young. Those two cataclysmic events is what formed the atomic structure of Honor's smallest and most intimate inner circle. Very strong bonds were formed.

penny wrote:Analogy time

Honor's inner circle definitely matters. The smallest unit of matter is the atom.

Except it isn't. Atoms, despite their name, are divisible into even smaller components.

Atoms were formed by the Big Bang.

Actually, no. Immediately after the Big Bang, the universe was too hot for nucleons to form. The first atom nuclei only formed about 10 seconds after the Big Bang and the process stopped after 20 minutes, producing only hydrogen, helium, lithium and maybe some boron. All the rest of the atoms weren't created until the first stars formed; in fact, no other elements besides helium started getting formed until those stars began to die by fusing helium into carbon several million years later, and all the rest only when they exploded as supernovae. This process will continue until the end of the stelliferous era, which is expected to last for 100 trillion years.

This atom is no different. It was formed by the Big Bang caused by Klaus Hauptman and Pavel Young. Those two cataclysmic events is what formed the atomic structure of Honor's smallest and most intimate inner circle. Very strong bonds were formed.

Using your analogy, I will agree that the seed of the Inner Circle began then, but it didn't stop growing until she retired and re-retired. But just like the light atoms (and the light cruiser), that was a lightweight team. It didn't become hefty until she aggregated even more people into it.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

penny wrote:Analogy time

Honor's inner circle definitely matters. The smallest unit of matter is the atom.

Except it isn't. Atoms, despite their name, are divisible into even smaller components.

Atoms were formed by the Big Bang.

Actually, no. Immediately after the Big Bang, the universe was too hot for nucleons to form. The first atom nuclei only formed about 10 seconds after the Big Bang and the process stopped after 20 minutes, producing only hydrogen, helium, lithium and maybe some boron. All the rest of the atoms weren't created until the first stars formed; in fact, no other elements besides helium started getting formed until those stars began to die by fusing helium into carbon several million years later, and all the rest only when they exploded as supernovae. This process will continue until the end of the stelliferous era, which is expected to last for 100 trillion years.

This atom is no different. It was formed by the Big Bang caused by Klaus Hauptman and Pavel Young. Those two cataclysmic events is what formed the atomic structure of Honor's smallest and most intimate inner circle. Very strong bonds were formed.

Using your analogy, I will agree that the seed of the Inner Circle began then, but it didn't stop growing until she retired and re-retired. But just like the light atoms (and the light cruiser), that was a lightweight team. It didn't become hefty until she aggregated even more people into it.

Again, Honor's inner circle expanded greatly. But for the root of the discussion pertaining to her inner circle's less than stellar rise in rank, the inner circle's members would have to be confined to the members of the Venn diagram who remained under her command and who were able to learn from her.

Estelle Matsuko certainly entered Honor's inner circle, I'd wager, but her rank should not have benefited from Honor's tutelage.

penny wrote:Estelle Matsuko certainly entered Honor's inner circle, I'd wager, but her rank should not have benefited from Honor's tutelage.

I am noy sure what you are doing here, since she is not in the Navy.

In OBS she is this: "Dame Estelle Matsuko, Resident Commissioner for Planetary Affairs on the planet Medusa".

In SftS she is this: "Baroness Medusa, Imperial Governor, Talbott ".

tlb wrote:

penny wrote:Estelle Matsuko certainly entered Honor's inner circle, I'd wager, but her rank should not have benefited from Honor's tutelage.

I am noy sure what you are doing here, since she is not in the Navy.

In OBS she is this: "Dame Estelle Matsuko, Resident Commissioner for Planetary Affairs on the planet Medusa".

In SftS she is this: "Baroness Medusa, Imperial Governor, Talbott ".

Point taken. I don't imagine Honor could have influenced any of promotions, but perhaps.

At any rate, the notion only applies to anyone under her command.