How advance are the Alpha lines?

penny wrote:An aside: I see no reason the MA should not allow Alphas to fall in love and marry who they want. And continue to take genetic code from any two Alphas and make a baby themselves. That would yield offspring by both natural and unnatural selection thus increasing the chances of success.

Even from the same couple. There's nothing stopping implanting a foetus in the uterus of the mother-to-be. We know they have the technology for that and for ex utero gestation.

It stands to reason that members of the Alignment (whether benign or malign) have a much less, let's call it "proprietary" view of their own genomes. I would suppose that they don't think that one's genetic code must be in their offspring for them to be considered legal offspring, or to be loved. We have the example of the Simões family where that was clearly not the case.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

penny wrote:An aside: I see no reason the MA should not allow Alphas to fall in love and marry who they want. And continue to take genetic code from any two Alphas and make a baby themselves. That would yield offspring by both natural and unnatural selection thus increasing the chances of success.

Even from the same couple. There's nothing stopping implanting a foetus in the uterus of the mother-to-be. We know they have the technology for that and for ex utero gestation.

It stands to reason that members of the Alignment (whether benign or malign) have a much less, let's call it "proprietary" view of their own genomes. I would suppose that they don't think that one's genetic code must be in their offspring for them to be considered legal offspring, or to be loved. We have the example of the Simões family where that was clearly not the case.

I certainly agree. And that would probably be the better method. Or the two different samples would have parents upset over the placement of the child. If a mother is impregnated she should have legal rights since possession is nine-tenths of the law. Still, I wouldn't think the father would like it very much. It seems like the MAlign's policies across the board rock a lot of boats.

If Honor is an Alpha, she was slumming when she married Hamish. LOL

But it makes you wonder how Raoul would have turned out had Honor married an Alpha. I wonder who the MA would mix Honor's genetic soup with.

Alpha + Beta + Alpha = ?

penny wrote:If Honor is an Alpha, she was slumming when she married Hamish. LOL

But it makes you wonder how Raoul would have turned out had Honor married an Alpha. I wonder who the MA would mix Honor's genetic soup with.

Alpha + Beta + Alpha = ?

If Honor is an Alpha, then she is an Alpha from 450 years ago - prior to the birth of Stephanie. So what has the Malign actually achieved in the last 450 years, if she is as good as any of them?

You malign Hamish, who is nearly her equal.

tlb wrote:

penny wrote:If Honor is an Alpha, she was slumming when she married Hamish. LOL

But it makes you wonder how Raoul would have turned out had Honor married an Alpha. I wonder who the MA would mix Honor's genetic soup with.

Alpha + Beta + Alpha = ?

If Honor is an Alpha, then she is an Alpha from 450 years ago - prior to the birth of Stephanie. So what has the Malign actually achieved in the last 450 years, if she is as good as any of them?

You malign Hamish, who is nearly her equal.

As far as intelligence they have achieved nothing more, as I have stated before. But they do not think so. So, my question still stands. Who in the Inner Onion would they mix Honor's soup with?

Didn't mean to malign Hamish. I'm just jealous. Nearly her equal?, is such an unfounded vaguery and I think it is unbefitting of anyone in the HV.

tlb wrote:If Honor is an Alpha, then she is an Alpha from 450 years ago - prior to the birth of Stephanie. So what has the Malign actually achieved in the last 450 years, if she is as good as any of them?

penny wrote:As far as intelligence they have achieved nothing more, as I have stated before. But they do not think so.

If they are NOT smarter, then they are NOT better; not even a longer life span can compensate. Even some of the slave lines are going to be stronger and more physically able.

tlb wrote:

tlb wrote:If Honor is an Alpha, then she is an Alpha from 450 years ago - prior to the birth of Stephanie. So what has the Malign actually achieved in the last 450 years, if she is as good as any of them?

penny wrote:As far as intelligence they have achieved nothing more, as I have stated before. But they do not think so.

If they are NOT smarter, then they are NOT better; not even a longer life span can compensate. Even some of the slave lines are going to be stronger and more physically able.

I certainly agree, wholeheartedly, but as far as the malignant minds of the MAlign are concerned, you are preaching to the choir.

At any rate, I do still wonder what kind of an offspring Honor would produce if she mates with another Alpha. Especially another Meyerdahl-B recipient.

penny wrote:LRDB? Interesting.

Anyhow, thanks for the refresher Fireflair. I did not realize that pairing couples was done across the board. I thought it was done on an occasional basis if it appeared that two couples would be compatible genetically where a union would intensify or bring out a certain genetic trait. How the MA can keep people from naturally falling in love and choosing their own mate is beyond me.

From what I recall the board is focused on the Star and Alpha lines at this point. Trying to build the superstar researching scientists, strategic thinkers, or improving the Inner Onion. All of the lower lines have pretty much been worked out to the general limits of the ability of genetic adjustments, i.e. high gravity workers.

I don't believe that the LRPB really concerned themselves greatly over the idea of people falling in love. Think of them more as the essentially absentminded professor in his lab, only concerned about outcomes. To the board it was a simple (albeit very complicated 'simple') system of parts they wanted to connect to try to get the results they wanted. Solve the equation sort of thing... We want Y, we have X and Z, we add a mystery factor and... (X+Z)f=Z. So they pair people and tinker with the genetics to get what is desired.

The only problem, and one which they do appear to recognize, is that it's not as simple as a math problem. Intelligence, for example, isn't a simple substitution of one genetic line of code. This is commented on about Honor's DNA in fact. Changing IQ is a part of several different bits of DNA and the IQ boost also comes with other problems, anger issues for example. And this is just one area to try to tinker in. Imagine improving a dozen or two dozen areas, areas which probably have overlapping genetic code. You want a basic 4 areas boosted: strength, IQ, reflexes, and immune systems. Now you've got an exponential growth of problems and overlapping DNA sequences which can cause the failure of any uplift.

Fireflair wrote:The only problem, and one which they do appear to recognize, is that it's not as simple as a math problem. Intelligence, for example, isn't a simple substitution of one genetic line of code.

It is also complicated, because they want intelligent initiative, but not ruthless ambition; since that would endanger the hierarchy with the Detweilers on top (see the comments on the Bardasano line in chapter 20 of Storm from the Shadows, for example). Note that a slight tendency towards sexual disorders and mildly sociopathic behavior only resulted in temporary Beta status for her genome.

Fireflair wrote:

penny wrote:LRDB? Interesting.

Anyhow, thanks for the refresher Fireflair. I did not realize that pairing couples was done across the board. I thought it was done on an occasional basis if it appeared that two couples would be compatible genetically where a union would intensify or bring out a certain genetic trait. How the MA can keep people from naturally falling in love and choosing their own mate is beyond me.

From what I recall the board is focused on the Star and Alpha lines at this point. Trying to build the superstar researching scientists, strategic thinkers, or improving the Inner Onion. All of the lower lines have pretty much been worked out to the general limits of the ability of genetic adjustments, i.e. high gravity workers.

I don't believe that the LRPB really concerned themselves greatly over the idea of people falling in love. Think of them more as the essentially absentminded professor in his lab, only concerned about outcomes. To the board it was a simple (albeit very complicated 'simple') system of parts they wanted to connect to try to get the results they wanted. Solve the equation sort of thing... We want Y, we have X and Z, we add a mystery factor and... (X+Z)f=Z. So they pair people and tinker with the genetics to get what is desired.

The only problem, and one which they do appear to recognize, is that it's not as simple as a math problem. Intelligence, for example, isn't a simple substitution of one genetic line of code. This is commented on about Honor's DNA in fact. Changing IQ is a part of several different bits of DNA and the IQ boost also comes with other problems, anger issues for example. And this is just one area to try to tinker in. Imagine improving a dozen or two dozen areas, areas which probably have overlapping genetic code. You want a basic 4 areas boosted: strength, IQ, reflexes, and immune systems. Now you've got an exponential growth of problems and overlapping DNA sequences which can cause the failure of any uplift.

I definitely agree. I think you are saying the same thing but just to be clear. There is the added problem of logistics. Let's use the analogy of cooking. If you change the recipe by adding more than one spice, it is difficult to gauge the effect of any one spice. The MA has the same problem. Therefore, only one area might need to be altered at a time. If a change is made, at least a generation might be needed before any negative side effects are observed. It appears as if it must be a slow, methodical and exacting process by design. If the Bardasano gene is indeed passed upstream, side effects might be a generation away.