Attacking Darius:

penny wrote:I have always had a vision about Darius as far as the environment being a poster child for their genetic uplift. I may be far off there. I know that Darius is said to be a paradise.

But I have always accepted another possibility that may support both. One is that Darius contains an interesting junction itself. Manticore has the MWJ. What if Darius not only has a junction as well, but a junction with unusual characteristics.

Is it possible for a single termini of a junction to exit right back in the same system? And can that be used as a tactical advantage?

Another possibility is a single termini in Darius providing a Bolthole.

Could a system have a series of termini which has to be transited simultaneously to activate. Like the security system on a nuclear sub where both keys have to be turned simultaneously.

At any rate, I am looking for the system itself to have wrinkles we have never seen before.

A wormhole with both ends attached to the same system is like a micro-jump, except with more restrictions: such as resonance zones and the ends being at fixed positions.

A wormhole to someplace that could serve the Malign as a bolthole would be very interesting. A new spider-hole is something that I have advocated. However it would be bad if it were too close to Darius, because if Darius was captured then the end would be guarded to capture or destroy anyone trying to return.

The math and physics for wormholes is still in development, so it seems impossible to force them to behave like a security system. Also it should be impossible to arrange transition "simultaneously to activate" for ships arriving at Darius.

penny wrote:I have always had a vision about Darius as far as the environment being a poster child for their genetic uplift. I may be far off there. I know that Darius is said to be a paradise.

But I have always accepted another possibility that may support both. One is that Darius contains an interesting junction itself. Manticore has the MWJ. What if Darius not only has a junction as well, but a junction with unusual characteristics.

Is it possible for a single termini of a junction to exit right back in the same system? And can that be used as a tactical advantage?

Another possibility is a single termini in Darius providing a Bolthole.

Could a system have a series of termini which has to be transited simultaneously to activate. Like the security system on a nuclear sub where both keys have to be turned simultaneously.

At any rate, I am looking for the system itself to have wrinkles we have never seen before.

Darius already has a terminus (to the junction in the Felix system). If it had another terminus let alone a junction, the status of the "Twins" (a nothing system with 2 terminii, one to Felix and the other to Congo) would not be unique.

penny wrote:But I have always accepted another possibility that may support both. One is that Darius contains an interesting junction itself. Manticore has the MWJ. What if Darius not only has a junction as well, but a junction with unusual characteristics.

So you're saying it contains three different wormhole termini?

One leading back to Felix Junction.

One pair that leads connects with itself.

I suppose that's possible, but it's not likely. We've already had omniscient narration that The Twins is the only known location with two independent termini in the same system. So it's not likely for Darius to have three.

Is it possible for a single termini of a junction to exit right back in the same system? And can that be used as a tactical advantage?

The first question is unanswerable.

The second is "probably not." Transiting through a wormhole is very slow, given the necessary time separation between ships. If it leads right back into the same system, then it's probably not worth the hassle and you can just get there in n-space or via a micro-jump more quickly.

The termini are probably also many light-hours apart from each other and from the inner system. I don't see how taking oneself out of the equation for multiple hours to go the long way around can be tactically advantageous.

Another possibility is a single termini in Darius providing a Bolthole.

That still requires two different wormhole complexes in the same system, which we know only to exist in The Twins.

Could a system have a series of termini which has to be transited simultaneously to activate. Like the security system on a nuclear sub where both keys have to be turned simultaneously.

That's unanswerable.

At any rate, I am looking for the system itself to have wrinkles we have never seen before.

Of natural phenomena, that's highly unlikely. The quota of those is already exhausted.

Thinksmarkedly wrote:The termini are probably also many light-hours apart from each other and from the inner system. I don't see how taking oneself out of the equation for multiple hours to go the long way around can be tactically advantageous.

Except that micro-jumps have a % error whereas the natural phenomena would not. The conditions would have to be conducive to a tactical advantage, but if the enemy happens to be at the right location then I am sure it could be used as a tactical advantage along with surprise. Like when the GA is stooging around the outer system.

tlb wrote:

penny wrote:I have always had a vision about Darius as far as the environment being a poster child for their genetic uplift. I may be far off there. I know that Darius is said to be a paradise.

But I have always accepted another possibility that may support both. One is that Darius contains an interesting junction itself. Manticore has the MWJ. What if Darius not only has a junction as well, but a junction with unusual characteristics.

Is it possible for a single termini of a junction to exit right back in the same system? And can that be used as a tactical advantage?

Another possibility is a single termini in Darius providing a Bolthole.

Could a system have a series of termini which has to be transited simultaneously to activate. Like the security system on a nuclear sub where both keys have to be turned simultaneously.

At any rate, I am looking for the system itself to have wrinkles we have never seen before.

A wormhole with both ends attached to the same system is like a micro-jump, except with more restrictions: such as resonance zones and the ends being at fixed positions.

A wormhole to someplace that could serve the Malign as a bolthole would be very interesting. A new spider-hole is something that I have advocated. However it would be bad if it were too close to Darius, because if Darius was captured then the end would be guarded to capture or destroy anyone trying to return.

The math and physics for wormholes is still in development, so it seems impossible to force them to behave like a security system. Also it should be impossible to arrange transition "simultaneously to activate" for ships arriving at Darius.

That spider-hole could also be the actual militaristic system cranking out all of the hardware. It could also be the base of the Renaissance Factor.

I have always wondered about the hierarchy of the entire malignant mess. Who is at the top, the RF or Darius? We know that a bunch of systems in the SL are said to represent secret cells of the RF. But I never thought they were the main base. And after the MA unveiled Houdini, wouldn't there be a place for the SL remnants of the RF to go if they needed to be disappeared?

At any rate, I think there is a highly industrial system cranking out hardware for both the RF and the MAN. A single location would also give them an opportunity for wedges and spider- drives to drill together and practice tactics.

After all, is the Renaissance Factor and the MAN an alliance of their own? The RFN and the MAN. Which would be the main navy?

penny wrote:That spider-hole could also be the actual militaristic system cranking out all of the hardware. It could also be the base of the Renaissance Factor.

I have always wondered about the hierarchy of the entire malignant mess. Who is at the top, the RF or Darius? We know that a bunch of systems in the SL are said to represent secret cells of the RF. But I never thought they were the main base. And after the MA unveiled Houdini, wouldn't there be a place for the SL remnants of the RF to go if they needed to be disappeared?

At any rate, I think there is a highly industrial system cranking out hardware for both the RF and the MAN. A single location would also give them an opportunity for wedges and spider- drives to drill together and practice tactics.

After all, is the Renaissance Factor and the MAN an alliance of their own? The RFN and the MAN. Which would be the main navy?

If Darius is going to pretend to an paradise of pacifism entirely devoted to the original vision of Leonard Detweiler, then it really does need another system to crank out the spider drive ships and all the other bad militaristic equipment that their real plan needs. The hierarchy is that the Detweilers are on top and the Renaissance Factor is a front organization that was intended to pick up the pieces of the fractured Solarian League and then everyone else.

The members of the RF would never have to go into hiding, because they were never to be the ones attacking the established order; but somehow (impossible as it seems now) they were going to provide a safe haven for the systems sick of the war between the SL and the Haven Quarter. There was never intended to be a clear tie between the RF and the Malign; if things had worked out, then the unknown Malign would still be operating out of the shadows.

It is not clear what the RF will do now, because the drawn out debilitating war that the Malign wanted never occurred; so the RF never had the chance to present itself as a neutral option for safety.

penny wrote:Except that micro-jumps have a % error whereas the natural phenomena would not. The conditions would have to be conducive to a tactical advantage, but if the enemy happens to be at the right location then I am sure it could be used as a tactical advantage along with surprise. Like when the GA is stooging around the outer system.

But with microjumps you can move a whole fleet at once - with a wormhole there's limits on both the maximum total mass that can use it simultaneously and delays between subsequent ships using it.

(Oh, and leaves you vulnerable for a few minutes upon arrival)

Plus, it'll only take you to onw specific point. The odds that that arrival spot is closer to your tactically ideal destination than you could put yourself by microjumping (even allowing for errors in microjumps) seems.... remote.

As an analogy:
If you're trying to get to Times Square which is better? Aiming for Times Square but knowing you could emerge anywhere within an 8 block radius of it, or knowing you can arrive, guaranteed, exactly at JFK airport (13 miles away)

penny wrote:I have always wondered about the hierarchy of the entire malignant mess. Who is at the top, the RF or Darius? We know that a bunch of systems in the SL are said to represent secret cells of the RF. But I never thought they were the main base. And after the MA unveiled Houdini, wouldn't there be a place for the SL remnants of the RF to go if they needed to be disappeared?

At any rate, I think there is a highly industrial system cranking out hardware for both the RF and the MAN. A single location would also give them an opportunity for wedges and spider- drives to drill together and practice tactics.

After all, is the Renaissance Factor and the MAN an alliance of their own? The RFN and the MAN. Which would be the main navy?

Darius is at the top of the pile. The RF was a dozen systems that all have leadership from families that are Alpha Lines (and know it) but they have been mostly working along as independent Star Systems which have been groomed to become the RF. We saw that official meeting of the heads of governments and Albrect Detweiler when he announced that the RF would shortly be made public. It's the leadership of the various sytemand a solid portion of the Mannerheim SDF in control of the RF. The are ultimately will be taking their orders from Darious as filtered through the leadership of the RF
This is very much the operating profile of the Alignment. We can guess that the vast majority of the initial dozen systems founding RF (at the direction and instigation of the Alignment) are mostly normal humans although from what has been said so far, the original dozen have probably more broadly permissive regulations on genetic manipulations (for all good and noble purposes of course) but nobody other than the Star Lines who have been initiated into the secret. And it is a secret. Some of the original dozen were very anti-genetic slavery, others less so. All part of the cover

It's more misdirection. Oh, the visible rational for the RF is to provide a defensive alliance against what was perceived (and how did that come about you might ask) massive problems of the SL and then the using the SLN as a blunt instrument to force compliance with the SL unelected leaderships rules and regulations. They are the rally point for disaffected SL members and nonaligned systems looking for cover and a way to have an enlarged collective defense against the problems that have been feared will come with the SL degenerating.

But it's Darius and the Alignment that will continue to shape the changes. Like by the manipulations it has always used and soon by the use of its invisible starships destroying the infrastructure and ability to remain independent of all sorts of systems so they will gather faster to the RF.

Brigade XO wrote:

penny wrote:I have always wondered about the hierarchy of the entire malignant mess. Who is at the top, the RF or Darius? We know that a bunch of systems in the SL are said to represent secret cells of the RF. But I never thought they were the main base. And after the MA unveiled Houdini, wouldn't there be a place for the SL remnants of the RF to go if they needed to be disappeared?

At any rate, I think there is a highly industrial system cranking out hardware for both the RF and the MAN. A single location would also give them an opportunity for wedges and spider- drives to drill together and practice tactics.

After all, is the Renaissance Factor and the MAN an alliance of their own? The RFN and the MAN. Which would be the main navy?

Darius is at the top of the pile. The RF was a dozen systems that all have leadership from families that are Alpha Lines (and know it) but they have been mostly working along as independent Star Systems which have been groomed to become the RF. We saw that official meeting of the heads of governments and Albrect Detweiler when he announced that the RF would shortly be made public. It's the leadership of the various sytemand a solid portion of the Mannerheim SDF in control of the RF. The are ultimately will be taking their orders from Darious as filtered through the leadership of the RF
This is very much the operating profile of the Alignment. We can guess that the vast majority of the initial dozen systems founding RF (at the direction and instigation of the Alignment) are mostly normal humans although from what has been said so far, the original dozen have probably more broadly permissive regulations on genetic manipulations (for all good and noble purposes of course) but nobody other than the Star Lines who have been initiated into the secret. And it is a secret. Some of the original dozen were very anti-genetic slavery, others less so. All part of the cover

It's more misdirection. Oh, the visible rational for the RF is to provide a defensive alliance against what was perceived (and how did that come about you might ask) massive problems of the SL and then the using the SLN as a blunt instrument to force compliance with the SL unelected leaderships rules and regulations. They are the rally point for disaffected SL members and nonaligned systems looking for cover and a way to have an enlarged collective defense against the problems that have been feared will come with the SL degenerating.

But it's Darius and the Alignment that will continue to shape the changes. Like by the manipulations it has always used and soon by the use of its invisible starships destroying the infrastructure and ability to remain independent of all sorts of systems so they will gather faster to the RF.

But what will happen if their secret long coveted ring of Alphas is discovered? Names. Addresses. Then they are in danger. And all of those families have to be whisked away in what could be the largest Houdini yet.

A whole bunch of people have the names of senior Alphas. Like probably the leaders of the 12 initial RF members. Fortunately for the Detweilers and friends, very few people actually know where Darius is.
It's a bit tough to come calling on the head Alphas if they are in a place you can't get to. We 1st see them hiding on Mesa and running an entire Star Nation though trickery and misdirection and getting other people do do the messy work while - for hundreds of years- planning to just dump Mesa and help it burn to cover up their involvement.

Now they are off at Darius, the plans are "getting modified" and they just lost the arsenal system they had been using for mostly equipment production- and as another sacrificial decoy.

So where are they going to go next? The GA 1st has to figure out that the Alignment trail leads to the Felix System. Then they- a fast pass though it will show there is little to no activity in the system- so they will have to discover the wormhole. That does present a problem since it doesn't take all that much to turn the wormhole into a killing ground so the GA can't go at it that way. Of course that also means that the Alignment has to have at least one other way (other than just a longish hyperspace trip) to get people and ships from Darius to the rest of Human occupied space- at which time they will be vulnerable to the same problems that lead the GA to Galton.

If they were smart (and we keep being told they are very smart) they will probably end up starting the revised Oyster Bay operation about the time they have 20 to 30 LDs worked up with the required (if they think they need them) escorts and certainly a massive logistics train to resupply the LD as they move around destroying orbital infrastructure belonging to the rest of humanity. Break the capacity to maintain any serious naval presence by any Star Nations and you open them up for attack by other you have not so dealt with. Fairly soon people will notice that while systems A, B, C etc have been hit by the invisible ships but K, P, R, X and L have not but have been taking advantage of situations and taking over what has been trashed......and you have a lot of unhappy people looking to keep K, P, R, X, L and others from being the aggressors going after your own planet. See, right back to the bedrock of The Plan. Some "minor" hits on RF systems and PRESTO- the plucky RF is trying to save the day......

The Alignment has no difficulty killing millions of people just to advance their plan.