Orphans of Circumstance

I'm in the midst of re-reading the saga, and find myself wondering what happens to Sidemore and its RMN Fleet Base after the partition of Silesia. Text says that they retained their independence and were allied to Manticore, but does the RMN keep the fleet base there, or turn it over to the Sidemore Navy?

The RMN's half of Silesia, after the partition, is on the other side of Silesia from Marsh & Sidemore. While Marsh is not part of Silesia, it's right on the border -- on the Andermani side. I suspect that the Andies would be wary of an official RMN fleet base in that position, and it may be the diplomatic thing for the RMN to move over to their side of Silesia and let Sidemore run the base as a local asset.

On the other hand, the current treaty between Manticore and the Andermani is not guaranteed to last forever. Having a fleet base in Marsh might be useful, especially if the Andies start feeling unsatisfied with their share of Silesia and maneuver to expand it.

In either case, Sidemore is right on the triangle trade route between Silesia and the Andermani Empire. They have a nice planet that could produce food to resupply ships, and a base with the tech to do repairs. Seems to me they'd make a nice way station and liberty port.

Interesting. Given how tense the Andie-Mantie relationship was in WoH, who knows.

dscott8 wrote:I'm in the midst of re-reading the saga, and find myself wondering what happens to Sidemore and its RMN Fleet Base after the partition of Silesia. Text says that they retained their independence and were allied to Manticore, but does the RMN keep the fleet base there, or turn it over to the Sidemore Navy?

The RMN's half of Silesia, after the partition, is on the other side of Silesia from Marsh & Sidemore. While Marsh is not part of Silesia, it's right on the border -- on the Andermani side. I suspect that the Andies would be wary of an official RMN fleet base in that position, and it may be the diplomatic thing for the RMN to move over to their side of Silesia and let Sidemore run the base as a local asset.

I do think that the RMN won't need to have such big bases anywhere outside of their own Silesian Quadrant territory, so those systems will lose some of the direct military investment. But Manticore has no reason to abandon their allies; those systems were getting more than just military investment. Those bear economic fruit for the whole region and create even more markets that can buy higher-added-value products from the Empire.

I also said "some of the direct military investment." Having a base on the other side of your territory still makes some sense, in case of mishaps in the journey from Gregor. Now, I don't know how much commerce protection the RMN will do on the Gregor-Silesia-Basilisk loop now that Silesia-entire is protected by both the IAN and RMN. It's still in the cards for maybe another decade, as we've seen in "Silesia Command" that systems outside of Silesia are still warrens for piracy.

Eventually, it might make sense to use an IAN base, but the Andies have no more bases right now in actual Silesia than the Manties do. This means these bases in Sidemore and Marsh are useful right now and not just to the RMN, but to the IAN too.

On the other hand, the current treaty between Manticore and the Andermani is not guaranteed to last forever. Having a fleet base in Marsh might be useful, especially if the Andies start feeling unsatisfied with their share of Silesia and maneuver to expand it.

Right. And right now they can't complain either.

In either case, Sidemore is right on the triangle trade route between Silesia and the Andermani Empire. They have a nice planet that could produce food to resupply ships, and a base with the tech to do repairs. Seems to me they'd make a nice way station and liberty port.

They probably already do.

I am also going to start reading this novel soon

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

dscott8 wrote:I'm in the midst of re-reading the saga, and find myself wondering what happens to Sidemore and its RMN Fleet Base after the partition of Silesia. Text says that they retained their independence and were allied to Manticore, but does the RMN keep the fleet base there, or turn it over to the Sidemore Navy?

The RMN's half of Silesia, after the partition, is on the other side of Silesia from Marsh & Sidemore. While Marsh is not part of Silesia, it's right on the border -- on the Andermani side. I suspect that the Andies would be wary of an official RMN fleet base in that position, and it may be the diplomatic thing for the RMN to move over to their side of Silesia and let Sidemore run the base as a local asset.

I do think that the RMN won't need to have such big bases anywhere outside of their own Silesian Quadrant territory, so those systems will lose some of the direct military investment. But Manticore has no reason to abandon their allies; those systems were getting more than just military investment. Those bear economic fruit for the whole region and create even more markets that can buy higher-added-value products from the Empire.

I also said "some of the direct military investment." Having a base on the other side of your territory still makes some sense, in case of mishaps in the journey from Gregor. Now, I don't know how much commerce protection the RMN will do on the Gregor-Silesia-Basilisk loop now that Silesia-entire is protected by both the IAN and RMN. It's still in the cards for maybe another decade, as we've seen in "Silesia Command" that systems outside of Silesia are still warrens for piracy.

Eventually, it might make sense to use an IAN base, but the Andies have no more bases right now in actual Silesia than the Manties do. This means these bases in Sidemore and Marsh are useful right now and not just to the RMN, but to the IAN too.

On the other hand, the current treaty between Manticore and the Andermani is not guaranteed to last forever. Having a fleet base in Marsh might be useful, especially if the Andies start feeling unsatisfied with their share of Silesia and maneuver to expand it.

Right. And right now they can't complain either.

In either case, Sidemore is right on the triangle trade route between Silesia and the Andermani Empire. They have a nice planet that could produce food to resupply ships, and a base with the tech to do repairs. Seems to me they'd make a nice way station and liberty port.

They probably already do.

I'd agree with the above, Sidemore, with it's infrastructure, will probably always be a good support location for the triangle trade, especially on the merchant side, but will lose value as a RMN fleet base.

I see the heavy RMN fleets being removed to IM Silesian territory, and a CA squadron and maybe some BCs remaining at Sidemore - enough to show that the RMN still cares about Sidemore and can patrol the area with strength, but not enough to be threatening to the Andermani. If all stays stable with the Andermani, I can see the base going strictly to a Merchant endeavor, and the Sidemorians take control of their own destiny, maybe being gifted a middle aged CA or 2 to bolster their small navy from the departing RMN.

Politically, they should sign an alliance with the Andermani and the Manties. Being in their location, they will be ensconced in the Andermani economic zone and as long as they are a strong, friendly partner, they are the next best thing to another world in the Andermani empire - the Andermani might not be able to Tax Sidemore, but they also don't have to govern and police it, while enjoying the economic value in trading with it.

Sidemore seems to be outside the IAE area and still provides a location that would support RMN on that end of Silesia ---other than the already interesting RMN Base/Station at Gregor to which Manticore holds essentially because the wormhole discovery (coming out of the Gregor B end of the wormhole from the Junction).

Not clear to me how close Sidemore is to any of the Manticore portion Silesia but it is a closely allied partner of SEM and for the moment it probably still happily trading with both the Andermani and Manticore- and anybody else who finds a market there. It also provides Sarnow with a much more secure existing fleet basing node with manufacturing, repair, supply capabilities than anything he has from the former ConFed operation in Silesia. One that is already up to capabilities of a RMN yard and support site with trained local and RMN/SEM on site and open for business.

I don't recall if Sidemore is mentioned as a place that is sending students to the RMN Academy but that would make sense given the relationship that they have with Manticore.

Brigade XO wrote:I don't recall if Sidemore is mentioned as a place that is sending students to the RMN Academy but that would make sense given the relationship that they have with Manticore.

It's not mentioned. But I agree it makes a lot of sense. Sidemore isn't as close an ally as Grayson, but it is the second best example of Manty economic and military assistance, with the third being a much later Idaho.

I wonder if Idaho has a statue of Honor somewhere, because Sidemore certainly should and we know Grayson does (one she wanted to blow up).

Brigade XO wrote:Sidemore seems to be outside the IAE area and still provides a location that would support RMN on that end of Silesia ---other than the already interesting RMN Base/Station at Gregor to which Manticore holds essentially because the wormhole discovery (coming out of the Gregor B end of the wormhole from the Junction).

Not clear to me how close Sidemore is to any of the Manticore portion Silesia but it is a closely allied partner of SEM and for the moment it probably still happily trading with both the Andermani and Manticore- and anybody else who finds a market there. It also provides Sarnow with a much more secure existing fleet basing node with manufacturing, repair, supply capabilities than anything he has from the former ConFed operation in Silesia. One that is already up to capabilities of a RMN yard and support site with trained local and RMN/SEM on site and open for business.

I don't recall if Sidemore is mentioned as a place that is sending students to the RMN Academy but that would make sense given the relationship that they have with Manticore.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.baen.com%2Fchapters%2FW200209%2F0671877232___0.htm&psig=AOvVaw3iZKCWpweWV-N0excex0nH&ust=1692725288619000&source=images&cd=vfe&opi=89978449&ved=0CA8QjRxqFwoTCOD4jJ6j7oADFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE

It's not letting me embed this image. Oh well. The RMN Empire image in HoS lines up with this image with the RMN portions in the "East" going from the 12:30 position on top through the 6:30 position on the bottom, With the Chalice on the top, and Psyche on the bottom, and including Silesia itself.

Marsh is just outside Silesia proper, but well on the Andermani side, at about the 8:00 position, which is close to the direct route to the Andermani empire.

Brigade XO wrote:I don't recall if Sidemore is mentioned as a place that is sending students to the RMN Academy but that would make sense given the relationship that they have with Manticore.

There's a scene in one of the books where Sidemore officers are training in parallel with RMN officers while they patrol Silesia. I don't know if this is a substitute for sending Sidemorians to Saganami Island, or a way to get those who are already commissioned up to speed. I suspect they'd do both.

dscott8 wrote:

Brigade XO wrote:I don't recall if Sidemore is mentioned as a place that is sending students to the RMN Academy but that would make sense given the relationship that they have with Manticore.

There's a scene in one of the books where Sidemore officers are training in parallel with RMN officers while they patrol Silesia. I don't know if this is a substitute for sending Sidemorians to Saganami Island, or a way to get those who are already commissioned up to speed. I suspect they'd do both.

It's in War of Honor