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Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine

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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Daryl   » Mon Jun 26, 2023 2:37 am

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Looks like Putin knows his history. When Napoleon attacked Moscow they discovered that the Czar, Court and Duma had left. So he only had the buildings, which his troops then burned down so he had no shelter in a Russian winter, and had to leave anyway.
Zelensky said Ï don't need a lift, I need ammo. Putin said Ï'm outa here".
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Arol   » Fri Jun 30, 2023 4:58 pm

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https://www.chathamhouse.org/2023/06/ho ... ar-ukraine

How to end Russia’s war on Ukraine

Persistent calls for a ceasefire or ‘negotiated settlement’ to end the fighting without tackling its underlying cause – Russia’s ambition to eliminate Ukraine as we know it – will do no more than reward the aggressor while punishing the victim.


A number of essays that makes the case for how any appeasement shown to Russia are simply a replay of the Munich Agreement. Complete with well-meaning peacemakers waving a paper that promises Peace in Our time!!!
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Joat42   » Fri Jun 30, 2023 5:58 pm

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Arol wrote:A number of essays that makes the case for how any appeasement shown to Russia are simply a replay of the Munich Agreement. Complete with well-meaning peacemakers waving a paper that promises Peace in Our time!!!


I'm not aware of a single instance in history where appeasement to an aggressor actually worked out for the victim except for a very limited time.

---
Jack of all trades and destructive tinkerer.

Anyone who have simple solutions for complex problems is a fool.
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Arol   » Mon Jul 10, 2023 9:04 am

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https://www.euronews.com/2023/07/10/erd ... -to-turkey

Erdoğan: Ankara could approve Sweden's NATO bid if EU 'opens way' to Turkey


So the other shoe finally hits the floor!!!
First it was Sweden and Finland that were victims of Erdogan’s extortions, if they wished to join NATO.
Then the Yanks were drawn into his game, when he linked the F-16’s to his demands.
Now he is drawing the entire EU into his extortion plans!!!
Turkey has had their EU application gathering dust somewhere in Brussels. So I guess that he feels that he can use Sweden as a wedge to get approval.
Me, I say give in to his extortion!
Then play his own game in erecting the civil rights hurdles that Turkey would have to jump for the application to be approved.
This last hurdle of Erdogan, might also explain Hungary’s intransigence. In that the EU has been withholding large multibillion EU pay outs to Hungary, because of their civil rights conflicts with the EU charter.
I guess that Hungary’s Orban fells that if Turkey can get some concessions from the EU he; like the cur dog following a Big Dog, can pick up some scraps!
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by zyffyr   » Mon Jul 10, 2023 1:30 pm

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I guess it is time to replace NATO with NNATO (New NATO - just like Old NATO but now with less Turkey).
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Arol   » Mon Jul 10, 2023 4:51 pm

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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66160319

Turkey's Erdogan to back Sweden joining Nato – Stoltenberg

Good news!
Wonder if someone had to surrender their first born to get the deal in house! ;)
Never been happier to lose a bet, a bottle of Bushmills given well out! :)
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Daryl   » Wed Jul 12, 2023 3:03 am

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Membership of EU?

Arol wrote:https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66160319

Turkey's Erdogan to back Sweden joining Nato – Stoltenberg

Good news!
Wonder if someone had to surrender their first born to get the deal in house! ;)
Never been happier to lose a bet, a bottle of Bushmills given well out! :)
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Arol   » Wed Jul 12, 2023 9:37 am

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Close, but not quite! ;)
As part of the agreement Sweden is obligated to work "actively" within the EU, for Turkey’s application to join the EU to be dusted off, and taken up to re-appraisal!
It can’t come as any surprise that Turkey’s obfuscation and demands this past year; regarding Sweden NATO application, has not earned them any love up in Sweden!
My cousin up there; a retired government bureaucrat himself, had a laugh that the word “actively” was included in the agreement. As an ex-bureaucrat himself, he recognized that it was a term with a multitude of uses; especially within the context of living up to the letter of an agreement without adhering to the spirit!!!
f.ex. If the Swedish EU-Commissioner once in a while picks up the phone, and calls the committee that is re-evaluating Turkey’s application to ask for and update, I guess that could count as “active”.:roll:
Payback is a bitch!!!! :twisted:
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Daryl   » Thu Jul 13, 2023 5:11 am

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As a retired senior bureaucrat I can recall that we called it the mirror response. I'll look into it.
Arol wrote:Close, but not quite! ;)
As part of the agreement Sweden is obligated to work "actively" within the EU, for Turkey’s application to join the EU to be dusted off, and taken up to re-appraisal!
It can’t come as any surprise that Turkey’s obfuscation and demands this past year; regarding Sweden NATO application, has not earned them any love up in Sweden!
My cousin up there; a retired government bureaucrat himself, had a laugh that the word “actively” was included in the agreement. As an ex-bureaucrat himself, he recognized that it was a term with a multitude of uses; especially within the context of living up to the letter of an agreement without adhering to the spirit!!!
f.ex. If the Swedish EU-Commissioner once in a while picks up the phone, and calls the committee that is re-evaluating Turkey’s application to ask for and update, I guess that could count as “active”.:roll:
Payback is a bitch!!!! :twisted:
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Lightkey   » Thu Jul 13, 2023 11:33 am

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First post here from Würzburg. Had been thinking to add to the discussion a few times already, as there are so many parallels to be found in such a well-documented war.

Last was just yesterday, when lieutenant general Oleg Tsokov[0] died in a hotel in Berdiansk, in one of the several missile strikes the Ukraine conducted on targets that are nearer to the Black Sea behind the front. It is notable because while it is not the first Russian lieutenant general to die in this war[1] (and why so many Russian generals died already is another topic, it's because they have to do the work of lower-ranking officers and thus have to be near the troops) but it is the first that isn't disputed by Russia or in the case of Roman Kutuzov announced lieutenant general posthumously, although even Tsokov was only promoted this January.
Also a humorous note from yesterday: army general Sergey Surovikin, who has not been seen since his run-in with the Wagner group, is according to a Russian official "taking a rest" and "is unavailable right now".

The day before, commander Stanislav Rzhitsky (formerly captain of a submarine) was assassinated in the Russian town Krasnodar during his morning jog. Notable for being really stupid of him to publicly show his jogging route with his fitness tracker online.[2]

Yesterday there was also major general Ivan Popov[3] who has been removed from his post, claiming in a video that it is due to a damning report he gave directly to the Chief of the General Staff Gerasimov the day before about soldiers getting decimated by artillery without sufficient counter-battery.[4] On a subjective note: he is the first Russian general I've seen so far with a decent-looking face.

Lastly, everyone here should read Kamil Galeev's incredibly insightful introductory threads[5] on the Russian economics and politics that led to the situation they are in now in this three-day-war.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleg_Tsokov
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_n ... of_Ukraine
[2] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66162502
[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Popo ... _born_1975)
[4] https://twitter.com/wartranslated/statu ... 2302459904
[5] https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/ ... 7039777795
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