How to avoid "they haven't fought a real war in centuries"?

phillies wrote:
It's a well known approach. There is a minor police action. It is used to test all the neato new weapons, and see which of them actually work and which of them do not.

The problem is that Afghanistan doesn't exactly test critical stuff, like your air defense, air-to-air combat, ballistic missile defenses, or how susceptible you are to REC or electronic attack. It tests your logistics and basic tactical skill.
So you slap each other on the back about how great you are when you don't know. And all your generals write glowing progress reports on how the war is going and the progress they have made. Which turn out to be lies.

kzt wrote:

phillies wrote:
It's a well known approach. There is a minor police action. It is used to test all the neato new weapons, and see which of them actually work and which of them do not.

The problem is that Afghanistan doesn't exactly test critical stuff, like your air defense, air-to-air combat, ballistic missile defenses, or how susceptible you are to REC or electronic attack. It tests your logistics and basic tactical skill.
So you slap each other on the back about how great you are when you don't know. And all your generals write glowing progress reports on how the war is going and the progress they have made. Which turn out to be lies.

Well, you need a competent military. And something a bit more dramatic...a Special Military Operation.

phillies wrote:Well, you need a competent military. And something a bit more dramatic...a Special Military Operation.

A three day special military operation! Our generals say that the billions invested has produced a hugely effective force, our intelligence services tell us that the billions they have spent of recruiting agents and propaganda means we will be greeted with flowers as liberators and the enemy military won't fight, with a new government all ready to take over. What could possibly go wrong?

If you have any questions please call me, my 200 meter super yacht in Marina di San Lorenzo has excellent communications facilities.

I brought this up before I retired from the Navy, in a more moderate way. My primary complaint which I strove to address while I was in was that the USN has become a highly administrative organization. A great deal of what the average sailor does on a daily basis is grounded in paperwork getting completed. This is not to say that individuals are not highly skilled or capable, but the processes which are in place do not encourage skilled individuals but the best administrators.

In part I feel that this stems from the fact that the majority of the USN does not engage in active combat exercises, but also because I feel that those in charge do not see the USN as having any peer challengers, so there is nothing to concern the powers that be.

Fireflair wrote:I brought this up before I retired from the Navy, in a more moderate way. My primary complaint which I strove to address while I was in was that the USN has become a highly administrative organization. A great deal of what the average sailor does on a daily basis is grounded in paperwork getting completed. This is not to say that individuals are not highly skilled or capable, but the processes which are in place do not encourage skilled individuals but the best administrators.

In part I feel that this stems from the fact that the majority of the USN does not engage in active combat exercises, but also because I feel that those in charge do not see the USN as having any peer challengers, so there is nothing to concern the powers that be.

What was that quote? - " No Inspection ready unit was prepared for combat, and no combat hardened unit would pass inspection."

Fireflair wrote:I brought this up before I retired from the Navy, in a more moderate way. My primary complaint which I strove to address while I was in was that the USN has become a highly administrative organization. A great deal of what the average sailor does on a daily basis is grounded in paperwork getting completed. This is not to say that individuals are not highly skilled or capable, but the processes which are in place do not encourage skilled individuals but the best administrators.

In part I feel that this stems from the fact that the majority of the USN does not engage in active combat exercises, but also because I feel that those in charge do not see the USN as having any peer challengers, so there is nothing to concern the powers that be.

I forget exactly what percentage of US sub COs were relieved within 6 months of Pearl Harbor, but it was a huge percentage. Like 2/3rds. The things that made you an outstanding peacetime CO usually made you a terrible wartime CO.

The last time the USN lost a ship was in 1945. The last vaguely serious naval engagement was Operation Preying Mantis, 35 years ago.

The 'leadership' of the USN is laser-like focused on leftist politics, not with naval combat. How long do you think it will be before you have race riots on carriers again?

Fireflair wrote:I brought this up before I retired from the Navy, in a more moderate way. My primary complaint which I strove to address while I was in was that the USN has become a highly administrative organization. A great deal of what the average sailor does on a daily basis is grounded in paperwork getting completed. This is not to say that individuals are not highly skilled or capable, but the processes which are in place do not encourage skilled individuals but the best administrators.

In part I feel that this stems from the fact that the majority of the USN does not engage in active combat exercises, but also because I feel that those in charge do not see the USN as having any peer challengers, so there is nothing to concern the powers that be.

I can't it find now, but I once saw what was supposed to be a letter from Sir Arthur Wellesley (not yet the Duke of Marlborough) to London, during the campaign in Spain, on what his troops priority was (the choices being filling out all the paperwork desired by the clerks in London or fighting the French).

kzt wrote:

Fireflair wrote:I brought this up before I retired from the Navy, in a more moderate way. My primary complaint which I strove to address while I was in was that the USN has become a highly administrative organization. A great deal of what the average sailor does on a daily basis is grounded in paperwork getting completed. This is not to say that individuals are not highly skilled or capable, but the processes which are in place do not encourage skilled individuals but the best administrators.

In part I feel that this stems from the fact that the majority of the USN does not engage in active combat exercises, but also because I feel that those in charge do not see the USN as having any peer challengers, so there is nothing to concern the powers that be.

I forget exactly what percentage of US sub COs were relieved within 6 months of Pearl Harbor, but it was a huge percentage. Like 2/3rds. The things that made you an outstanding peacetime CO usually made you a terrible wartime CO.

IIRC, more than a few of those commanders were relieved because they persisted in complaining that the torpedoes didn't work as explanation on why they didn't sink anything.

BTW, the torpedoes didn't work (there were at least 3 problems) and it took at least 2 years to fix them (with the Navy bureaucracy resisting the whole way).

kzt wrote:

Fireflair wrote:I brought this up before I retired from the Navy, in a more moderate way. My primary complaint which I strove to address while I was in was that the USN has become a highly administrative organization. A great deal of what the average sailor does on a daily basis is grounded in paperwork getting completed. This is not to say that individuals are not highly skilled or capable, but the processes which are in place do not encourage skilled individuals but the best administrators.

In part I feel that this stems from the fact that the majority of the USN does not engage in active combat exercises, but also because I feel that those in charge do not see the USN as having any peer challengers, so there is nothing to concern the powers that be.

I forget exactly what percentage of US sub COs were relieved within 6 months of Pearl Harbor, but it was a huge percentage. Like 2/3rds. The things that made you an outstanding peacetime CO usually made you a terrible wartime CO.

The last time the USN lost a ship was in 1945. The last vaguely serious naval engagement was Operation Preying Mantis, 35 years ago.

The 'leadership' of the USN is laser-like focused on leftist politics, not with naval combat. How long do you think it will be before you have race riots on carriers again?

Preying Mantis wasn't even against a "peer" Navy, it was against the Iranians and undertaken in part as a response for attacking oil tankers with ships and aircraft as well as laying the mines that nearly sunk USS SAMUEL B ROBERTS as well as damaging a number of merchant ships.

Our Navy sunk ONE frigate, damaged another and took out two drilling platforms that were being used for maritime surveillance.

Our national military leadership as well as our Navy's leadership had best be preparing to face off against China, a true peer because sooner or later (probably sooner) the Chinese ARE going to start using that military machine they've been building.

I can guarantee you that the Chinese are training for war and have the numbers of conventional (non-nuclear) forces to pull it off.

robert132 wrote:
Our national military leadership as well as our Navy's leadership had best be preparing to face off against China, a true peer because sooner or later (probably sooner) the Chinese ARE going to start using that military machine they've been building.

I can guarantee you that the Chinese are training for war and have the numbers of conventional (non-nuclear) forces to pull it off.

The US leadership are not preparing to do anything involving combat. They Navy is a DIE bureaucracy that runs ships. Their plan for confronting the PLAN buildup is to get rid of the Nimitz and 30% of the VLS tubes today and cross my heart promise to replace them in a decade or two.