Spoiler for "What Price Victory"

tlb wrote:

tlb wrote:Yes, command does involve handling relationships (but that is more the province of the XO), however the most important part is a mastery of ship handling, tactics and strategy.

cthia wrote:A warship is a family. Think Fearless and the original problems Honor had to solve with her crew when she first assumed command. She did it rather ingeniously, and quite different from what I imagine any other officer would have done. The way she handled the dissention aboard Fearless endeared those officers to her command for life. And each of them would follow her to hell and back. Some of them did.

I have admitted that handling relationships is PART of the job of command and I will agree that she did an excellent job in OBS. BUT, all that would have been for nothing, if her other skills had not allowed her to realize what was going to happen and take appropriate action to prevent it; including successfully taking her ship to fight against a heavier opponent. What you are praising will help get the ship to the fight, but other talents are still needed to win.

I certainly agree. Moreover, Honor is an Alpha, and Alpha females protect their family with their life. And to do that, a female lion must sharpen her skills to protect her "cubs". Honor has always cared more for others than for herself. Her country first. Her crew second.

cthia wrote:a female lion must sharpen her skills to protect her "cubs"

When a new male (or pair of males) takes over a pride; the first thing done is to kill all the cubs, so the females will be ready to bear new cubs quicker.

tlb wrote:

Theemile wrote:It was Honor's first victory - overcoming the anger between her Mother and Grandmother and healing the family. Her father calls it so in response to Honor's worry that she might not be up to command a starship.

If so, that seems disappointing and I fail to see the connection between solving a family crisis and commanding a starship. Yes, command does involve handling relationships (but that is more the province of the XO), however the most important part is a mastery of ship handling, tactics and strategy.

From the last page of The story

“As for sucking at tactics—!” A deep chuckle rumbled through his chest. “Honor Harrington, I’m totally confident you’ll excel at that.”
“How?” she challenged, turning her head to look up at him with a twinkle in her eye. “How can you be so sure?”
“Because you’re my daughter, and your mother’s, and your Uncle Jacques’s niece. Besides, I’ll have you know you won your very first victory before you could even talk. Heck, before you could walk!”
“What kind of ‘victory’?” she demanded.
“Oh, a great and glorious one!” he told her, and beneath the laughter in his voice, she heard a serious note, as well. “You vanquished an implacable foe, a veritable dragon of animosity and anger, liberating and reuniting two people who’d been separated by an unbridgeable chasm for years.”

Bolding mine

Theemile wrote:From the last page of The story

That does not help. I will get the book; but now I have very low expectations of the novella, which I have faint hope will prove to be wrong.

tlb wrote:

Theemile wrote:It was Honor's first victory - overcoming the anger between her Mother and Grandmother and healing the family. Her father calls it so in response to Honor's worry that she might not be up to command a starship.

If so, that seems disappointing and I fail to see the connection between solving a family crisis and commanding a starship. Yes, command does involve handling relationships (but that is more the province of the XO), however the most important part is a mastery of ship handling, tactics and strategy.

Theemile wrote:From the last page of The story

“As for sucking at tactics—!” A deep chuckle rumbled through his chest. “Honor Harrington, I’m totally confident you’ll excel at that.”
“How?” she challenged, turning her head to look up at him with a twinkle in her eye. “How can you be so sure?”
“Because you’re my daughter, and your mother’s, and your Uncle Jacques’s niece. Besides, I’ll have you know you won your very first victory before you could even talk. Heck, before you could walk!”
“What kind of ‘victory’?” she demanded.
“Oh, a great and glorious one!” he told her, and beneath the laughter in his voice, she heard a serious note, as well. “You vanquished an implacable foe, a veritable dragon of animosity and anger, liberating and reuniting two people who’d been separated by an unbridgeable chasm for years.”

Bolding mine

If my virgin eyes read that with no coercion from the outside, I would guess the unbridgeable chasm between the grandmothers. The grandmother in-laws.

IOW, Allison's grandmother may have disliked Alfred's grandmother. And vice versa. Prolong always brings the grandmothers' influence into play in a marriage. In our society without prolong, a bride's parents are a force to be reckoned with. Consider if one had to deal with the deeply entrenched set-in-her old ways iron-horse of a grandmother. We're talking about the morals of a Beowulfan grandmother exerting undue pressures and influence upon a marriage.

And if I had to guess the contents of the disagreement, think Star Trek and Deanna Troi's mother insisting on a traditional Betazed marriage where everyone is naked.

Beowulfans may go even further and include an all out in the open bachelor and bachelorette party of an orgy.

If I had to guess.

cthia wrote:If my virgin eyes read that with no coercion from the outside, I would guess the unbridgeable chasm between the grandmothers. The grandmother in-laws.

IOW, Allison's grandmother may have disliked Alfred's grandmother. And vice versa. Prolong always brings the grandmothers' influence into play in a marriage. In our society without prolong, a bride's parents are a force to be reckoned with. Consider if one had to deal with the deeply entrenched set-in-her old ways iron-horse of a grandmother. We're talking about the morals of a Beowulfan grandmother exerting undue pressures and influence upon a marriage.

And if I had to guess the contents of the disagreement, think Star Trek and Deanna Troi's mother insisting on a traditional Betazed marriage where everyone is naked.

Beowulfans may go even further and include an all out in the open bachelor and bachelorette party of an orgy.

If I had to guess.

Since this is a spoiler tab -

NOPE

The chasm is between Allison and her mother - they didn't talk for over 12 years after Allison married Alfred and left Beowulf (and the future her mother wanted for her).

The beginnings of this are actually discussed in the s. story in Beginnings.

Alfred's parents are kind, loving folk who treated Allison as another daughter (in addition to the 2 they already had).

Theemile wrote:

cthia wrote:If my virgin eyes read that with no coercion from the outside, I would guess the unbridgeable chasm between the grandmothers. The grandmother in-laws.

IOW, Allison's grandmother may have disliked Alfred's grandmother. And vice versa. Prolong always brings the grandmothers' influence into play in a marriage. In our society without prolong, a bride's parents are a force to be reckoned with. Consider if one had to deal with the deeply entrenched set-in-her old ways iron-horse of a grandmother. We're talking about the morals of a Beowulfan grandmother exerting undue pressures and influence upon a marriage.

And if I had to guess the contents of the disagreement, think Star Trek and Deanna Troi's mother insisting on a traditional Betazed marriage where everyone is naked.

Beowulfans may go even further and include an all out in the open bachelor and bachelorette party of an orgy.

If I had to guess.

Since this is a spoiler tab -

NOPE

The chasm is between Allison and her mother - they didn't talk for over 12 years after Allison married Alfred and left Beowulf (and the future her mother wanted for her).

The beginnings of this are actually discussed in the s. story in Beginnings.

Alfred's parents are kind, loving folk who treated Allison as another daughter (in addition to the 2 they already had).

IOW, Honor's grandmother. I knew it! LOL

I wonder if the marriage was held on Sphinx? If it wasn't, Allison's mother had a bonafide bone to pick.

cthia wrote:I wonder if the marriage was held on Sphinx? If it wasn't, Allison's mother had a bonafide bone to pick.

Don't you mean that Allison's mother would have wanted the wedding on Beowulf, where her family was? The sentence earlier said: "the one by DW starts with Allison's mother highly disapproving (in talking to her son Jacques) of her daughter's choice to move in with Lieutenant Harrington and go to live on an obscure planet where winter lasts over a year"; which makes it sound as though the eventual wedding was on Sphinx.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:I wonder if the marriage was held on Sphinx? If it wasn't, Allison's mother had a bonafide bone to pick.

Don't you mean that Allison's mother would have wanted the wedding on Beowulf, where her family was? The sentence earlier said: "the one by DW starts with Allison's mother highly disapproving (in talking to her son Jacques) of her daughter's choice to move in with Lieutenant Harrington and go to live on an obscure planet where winter lasts over a year"; which makes it sound as though the eventual wedding was on Sphinx.

Spolier -










The wedding was on Beowulf, just before they left for the SKM. Allison's mom was invited, but, not approving of Allison and Alfred's plans, didn't show. It broke Allison's heart and started the 12+ year rift where they didn't talk, even though Allison sent letters and invites to her.

Allison's Dad, not trying to cause further issues, broke off communication also, only because he was trying to placate Allison's mother, but the whole situation wounded him as well, but not because he disapproved. Jacques, visited many times during that period and was Allison's only Family tie.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:I wonder if the marriage was held on Sphinx? If it wasn't, Allison's mother had a bonafide bone to pick.

Don't you mean that Allison's mother would have wanted the wedding on Beowulf, where her family was? The sentence earlier said: "the one by DW starts with Allison's mother highly disapproving (in talking to her son Jacques) of her daughter's choice to move in with Lieutenant Harrington and go to live on an obscure planet where winter lasts over a year"; which makes it sound as though the eventual wedding was on Sphinx.

Theemile wrote:Spolier -










The wedding was on Beowulf, just before they left for the SKM. Allison's mom was invited, but, not approving of Allison and Alfred's plans, didn't show. It broke Allison's heart and started the 12+ year rift where they didn't talk, even though Allison sent letters and invites to her.

Allison's Dad, not trying to cause further issues, broke off communication also, only because he was trying to placate Allison's mother, but the whole situation wounded him as well, but not because he disapproved. Jacques, visited many times during that period and was Allison's only Family tie.

Doh! Another brain fart; must've been something I ate.

Yes, I meant if the wedding had been on Sphinx, Allison's mother had a right to be upset. The wedding is usually held in the bride's hometown and the father gives her away.

So, who gave her away? Jacques? Or did her father attend, THEN broke off communication?