Remaining StateSec ships!

I don´t know how much StateSec ships got away after the rebirth of the Republik, but I think it should be a few dozen.

Well, some made their way to Mesa and got hired for the attack on Torch.

It is understandble, that the Mesans/the Alignment ignored the ships, the general tecnological Level of the Republik was behind at that time.

But after all the losses the League faced must even the thick skulled person see, that the League military tec and with that, the tec of Technodyne is way behind of manticore.

The Alignement has allies in the League, like Mannerheim. It will be difficult to archive your goals, if your Navy is crap.

The easiest and fastest way to close the gap would be, to find some of the remaining StateSec ships and make the crew an offer they can not refuse.

Even if the StateSec ships are older, they are build with the current "Missle doctrine" in mind. If you copy the design, upgrade some systems and use the tactical data of the ships, will save you billions in research and years of time.

Now is the question, does someone in the Alignment/at Tecnodyne remember the Torch adventure and try to find them?

Maldorian wrote:I don´t know how much StateSec ships got away after the rebirth of the Republik, but I think it should be a few dozen.

Well, some made their way to Mesa and got hired for the attack on Torch.

It is understandble, that the Mesans/the Alignment ignored the ships, the general tecnological Level of the Republik was behind at that time.

But after all the losses the League faced must even the thick skulled person see, that the League military tec and with that, the tec of Technodyne is way behind of manticore.

The Alignement has allies in the League, like Mannerheim. It will be difficult to archive your goals, if your Navy is crap.

The easiest and fastest way to close the gap would be, to find some of the remaining StateSec ships and make the crew an offer they can not refuse.

Even if the StateSec ships are older, they are build with the current "Missle doctrine" in mind. If you copy the design, upgrade some systems and use the tactical data of the ships, will save you billions in research and years of time.

Now is the question, does someone in the Alignment/at Tecnodyne remember the Torch adventure and try to find them?

Built with current "missile doctrine"? They were built with 1916 PD technology (at best) and the war with the Republic of Haven saw many more improvements. Remember that the Peoples' Republic was about to lose to Manticore at the time that St Just managed to get the ceasefire.

It would be better to approach Erewhon and the Maya Sector to make contracts for the technology that they have. They at least defeated the State Sec Navy; so if someone remembers the Torch adventure, they should approach the winners and not the losers.

MDMs were post state-sec. So they can’t help you with that. They probably have a more realistic view of space warfare than most available navies, but state sec ships didn’t apparently fight very much and were not generally considered as good as the average peep Naval unit. So maybe. There is a lot to be said for a serious well-trained. Rew, if that is what they have.

kzt wrote:MDMs were post state-sec. So they can’t help you with that. They probably have a more realistic view of space warfare than most available navies, but state sec ships didn’t apparently fight very much and were not generally considered as good as the average peep Naval unit. So maybe. There is a lot to be said for a serious well-trained. Rew, if that is what they have.

State Sec may have thought they were in the mold of the Waffen SS, but they were, for the most part, more in the mold of the SA, bully boys with shiny uniforms. Yes, given surprise and overwhelming power differentials, they could occasionally carry out a successful operation. And individual commanders may have brought their units to a better state of training and readiness than average. But they were exceptional.

Who would want to take the crews of State Sec (Peoples Republic of Haven Navy in Exile)? The Alignment used one small mixed squadron (after refitting them) to try and wipe out Torch.
They were expendable and convenient scapegoats though exactly why--or then being mercenaries that were some seriously problematic "true believers" to comment genocide and apparently none of them were supposed to live past the "victory" at Torch since they were all fitted with Alignment self-destruct devices. Sigh....such nice people.

Perhaps the SLN would want some PRH ships if for nothing more than getting FUNCTIONING ships that were able to survive against Manticore prior to the fall of the PRH. And whatever is in their computers and what they can get from debriefing the crews as far as tactics and performance and what their impressions of RMN was able to do. But use these people......no. Give them all very thorough psych exams and possibly lock them up or whatever you do in the SL with SS goons and officers.

Remember that while the SLN just got a very good look--from the "they hammered the shit out of us and we couldn't do a dammed thing about it" point of view----- at what the GA navies (RMN, RHN) can do, they don't -that we know of- have any hardware to examine. This presumes the PRHNIN has much in the way of missiles and other expendables left at this point.

Possibly some actual mercenary outfit, but how much could they trust the Peeps given the reputation of SS. Without having someone who can either/both supply they with weapons they can use/do refits to use other navy's missiles, they are going to become ineffective except perhaps as pirates in backwater areas and concentrating on unarmed merchants. These ships are worth more as scrap than as functioning warships. The crews.......not so much. Perhaps collect whatever bounty Haven still offers for "missing" SS?.

Built with current "missile doctrine"? They were built with 1916 PD technology (at best) and the war with the Republic of Haven saw many more improvements. Remember that the Peoples' Republic was about to lose to Manticore at the time that St Just managed to get the ceasefire.

It would be better to approach Erewhon and the Maya Sector to make contracts for the technology that they have. They at least defeated the State Sec Navy; so if someone remembers the Torch adventure, they should approach the winners and not the losers.

You know what i mean: The general switch from "weaken the enemy with missles and finish them off with Graser" to " use real clouds of missles to finish your eneies off".

Yes, Erewhon and Maya are better adresses, but it will surely need much more time and is in the open, others will also know what you get.

Getting your hands on one of the remaining StateSec ships would be a quiet way.

Also, maybe the Alignment knew already the whereabouts of one or two ships who said no to Mesa, but maybe yes to Tecnodyne or Mannerheim.

Brigade XO wrote:Perhaps the SLN would want some PRH ships if for nothing more than getting FUNCTIONING ships that were able to survive against Manticore prior to the fall of the PRH.

But they weren't. They were able to hold the Manticore Alliance to a stalemate up until 1910-1911, before the results of Project Anzio and the MDMs came online. Those ships are better than anything the SLN would have been fielding at the same time, but by now they are a decade old. Even the SLN makes improvements over time, especially on the below-the-wall units because they actually used them. Whether they are ahead of what the PN had 10 years prior is debatable, but it would be comparable.

That's not to say the SLN shouldn't acquire some, just to see if there's anything to be learnt, the same way that they should get themselves a Star Knight if they could (and anything more recent, of course). But I doubt a Mars or a Sultan is going to be of any insight, especially since those ships were built with mostly Solarian technology in the first place, and modelled after Solarian units.

Maldorian wrote:Yes, Erewhon and Maya are better addresses, but it will surely need much more time and is in the open, others will also know what you get.

Getting your hands on one of the remaining StateSec ships would be a quiet way.

Also, maybe the Alignment knew already the whereabouts of one or two ships who said no to Mesa, but maybe yes to Technodyne or Mannerheim.

Any ships that went to Technodyne or Mannerhein are already known to the Alignment. However Darius is going off in an entirely different direction with the spider drive.

The people that really need to upgrade their Navies are Mannerheim and the Renaissance Factor. There is no reason that that they cannot approach the Maya Sector and Erewhon, since they are openly antislavery and "in no way connected" to the evil monsters at Galton.

As for people knowing what you have, what you are looking for is a way to jump start the development of a better Navy. Again it is better to start with the victors at Torch, not the losers.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:But they weren't. They were able to hold the Manticore Alliance to a stalemate up until 1910-1911, before the results of Project Anzio and the MDMs came online. Those ships are better than anything the SLN would have been fielding at the same time, but by now they are a decade old. Even the SLN makes improvements over time, especially on the below-the-wall units because they actually used them. Whether they are ahead of what the PN had 10 years prior is debatable, but it would be comparable.

That's not to say the SLN shouldn't acquire some, just to see if there's anything to be learnt, the same way that they should get themselves a Star Knight if they could (and anything more recent, of course). But I doubt a Mars or a Sultan is going to be of any insight, especially since those ships were built with mostly Solarian technology in the first place, and modelled after Solarian units.

We've heard the SLN units complain that their missile (and CM?) launchers break if they operate above a certain cyclic rate -- and that rate is far inferior to what both the PRH and the RMN were achieving during the 1st war.

Now that may just mean that the SLN wasn't viewing cyclic rate as a key factor, and therefore either wasn't willing to spend the money to buy a more robust, reliable, launcher system or wasn't willing to hold their contractors feet to the fire until they worked the issues out of the ones they'd sold the SLN.


So that's one example of an improvement to specific systems that the SLN might be able to glean from even a decade out of date Statesec ship. But any such gleanings would be marginal improvements -- not the kind of leaps they'd need in order to catch up with the GA fleets.
(And, most likely, not anything that League designers couldn't quickly match, or surpass, once properly applied to the problem)


So, sure, if they can easily get their hands on one the ex-Statesec ships then by all means have one of your yards tear it down and see if you learn anything useful. But don't expect miracles.