A copper-plated moral decision for the 'Cats . . .

tlb wrote:The problem of getting the Queen's DNA by sweeping the palace is that you end with a jumble of DNA and resulting uncertainty of having something that exclusively represents the Queen; combined with the difficulty of then infecting her. People like Honor or the Queen are heavily guarded even in their most private moments when a cleanest sample could be obtained. Because of that it is simpler and cleaner to stage an attack through a less defended third person.

Somtaaw wrote:Yes and no. DNA checks seem to be pretty easily done, and people like Honor or Elizabeth being genies would have substanially easier identification than 'normals'. Hell, if you could hack their personal doctors computer system you could probably get a good chunk of their genetic data.

Maybe not enough to vat-clone an organ, but you'd at least have enough of a genetic template to tell your targets hair from a servant off say some dirty bedsheets, a hair comb (Honor's used one of those a half dozen times on-scene), or a dirty uniform that got snatched before it made it to the laundry.

And Mesa/Alignment are the galaxies (second) best geneticists, they shouldn't need much to guarantee correct identification. And all they'd need is a few hairs from the correct person to start growing the custom nanites, it might take longer to do than getting your hands on actual blood or tissue samples, but if anybody could it's the Alignment.

The largest and hardest problem isn't in acquiring the genetic sample, but reintroducing it back to the final target. Honor now being something close to a Stay-At-Home mom gives the Alignment more possibilities than any other time since Honor was half-pay after shooting Pavel Young. In recent history, she's been mostly safely tucked away aboard fleet flagships, attending strategy briefings, or otherwise having her itinerary so highly classified even the people who actually needed to know were never quite sure of her exact location.

Honor's security is probably overall tighter than even Elizabeth, because Grayson armsmen just seem better trained than Manticoran Palace Guard. Possibly because they didn't have all the technological options, so they had to rely more on personal training & experience rather than just waving a scanner, or watching a camera from another room. But again... if you're intelligent and put your mind to it, you can get to just about anybody, it's just a matter of how determined you are to becoming a martyr. And we saw previously that the Mesan Alignment GAULs would have happily strapped a nuclear bomb to their backs and personally detonated it for the Onion Evacuation, they clearly have plenty of voluntary martyrs waiting.

tlb wrote:The sneaky thing about the nanites are that you do not need a voluntary martyr; indeed, such a person might find it hard to get past the protective cats. The "Rat Poison" attempt on Torch is a perfect example (except that it failed to get the primary target) and it did accomplish the goal of restarting the war.

tlb wrote:The sneaky thing about the nanites are that you do not need a voluntary martyr; indeed, such a person might find it hard to get past the protective cats. The "Rat Poison" attempt on Torch is a perfect example (except that it failed to get the primary target) and it did accomplish the goal of restarting the war.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Rat Poison was described as a two-stage attack, and I understood that as the fact that the carrier was an unwitting pawn ("useful idiot" in the parlance?), not an actual agent of the MAlign. However, he was detected by the treecat.

This useful idiot intermediary needs to accomplish the infection without being under compulsion or any other form of duress. They can't have been tortured, or being blackmailed into doing it, because they treecats would know. Financial extortion is something the two legs' security services should catch.

tlb wrote:The cat detected the point where the nanite compulsion kicked in and the nerve gas was triggered. Only the fact of a secret door kept Queen Berry from being killed.

tlb wrote:The cat detected the point where the nanite compulsion kicked in and the nerve gas was triggered. Only the fact of a secret door kept Queen Berry from being killed.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:But the treecat detected the inner turmoil before the patsy actually did anything. He just was unsure what it meant, because it was outside their experience.

tlb wrote:Even if the cat could have become sure of what it meant, he died before he could pass the knowledge on.

tlb wrote:Even if the cat could have become sure of what it meant, he died before he could pass the knowledge on.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:That's true, but there have been other incidents. And wasn't Nimitz present when Tim Meares activated? My point is that they may now have enough evidence to know when someone is being activated and take proactive action.

I don't know what that action might be, in case they're wrong.

William Henry Tyler stood in the throne room, waiting patiently with the rest of the crowd, and rubbed idly at his right temple. He felt a bit . . . odd. Not ill, really. He didn't even have a headache. In fact, if anything, he felt just a bit euphoric, although he couldn't think why.
He shrugged and checked his chrono. "Queen Berry"—he smiled slightly at the thought of the Torch monarch's preposterous youth; she was younger than the younger of Tyler's own two daughters—was obviously running late. Which, he supposed, was the prerogative of a head of state, even if she was only seventeen.
He glanced down at his brief case and felt a brief, mild stir of surprise. It vanished instantly, in a stronger surge of that inexplicable euphoria. He'd actually been a bit startled when the security man asked him what was in the case. For just an instant, it had been as if he'd never seen it before, but then, of course, he'd remembered the gifts for Queen Berry and Prince Ruth. That had been a really smart idea on Marketing's part, he conceded. Every young woman he'd ever met had liked expensive perfume, whether she was willing to admit it or not.
He relaxed again, humming softly, at peace with the universe.

tlb wrote:No, there was no turmoil with Lt. Meares; what Nimitz felt was the panic when the the nanites assumed control. So the cats can recognize that activation instant.

With the incident in the throne run, the nanites had already kicked in, but at a very low level and were keeping the patsy happy and not too sure why he was carrying a briefcase. This is the only such incident of which we are aware, where the nanites were already exerting some control. From chapter 29 of Torch of Freedom:

William Henry Tyler stood in the throne room, waiting patiently with the rest of the crowd, and rubbed idly at his right temple. He felt a bit . . . odd. Not ill, really. He didn't even have a headache. In fact, if anything, he felt just a bit euphoric, although he couldn't think why.
He shrugged and checked his chrono. "Queen Berry"—he smiled slightly at the thought of the Torch monarch's preposterous youth; she was younger than the younger of Tyler's own two daughters—was obviously running late. Which, he supposed, was the prerogative of a head of state, even if she was only seventeen.
He glanced down at his brief case and felt a brief, mild stir of surprise. It vanished instantly, in a stronger surge of that inexplicable euphoria. He'd actually been a bit startled when the security man asked him what was in the case. For just an instant, it had been as if he'd never seen it before, but then, of course, he'd remembered the gifts for Queen Berry and Prince Ruth. That had been a really smart idea on Marketing's part, he conceded. Every young woman he'd ever met had liked expensive perfume, whether she was willing to admit it or not.
He relaxed again, humming softly, at peace with the universe.

tlb wrote:With the incident in the throne run, the nanites had already kicked in, but at a very low level and were keeping the patsy happy and not too sure why he was carrying a briefcase. This is the only such incident of which we are aware, where the nanites were already exerting some control. From chapter 29 of Torch of Freedom:

William Henry Tyler stood in the throne room, waiting patiently with the rest of the crowd, and rubbed idly at his right temple. He felt a bit . . . odd. Not ill, really. He didn't even have a headache. In fact, if anything, he felt just a bit euphoric, although he couldn't think why.
He shrugged and checked his chrono. "Queen Berry"—he smiled slightly at the thought of the Torch monarch's preposterous youth; she was younger than the younger of Tyler's own two daughters—was obviously running late. Which, he supposed, was the prerogative of a head of state, even if she was only seventeen.
He glanced down at his brief case and felt a brief, mild stir of surprise. It vanished instantly, in a stronger surge of that inexplicable euphoria. He'd actually been a bit startled when the security man asked him what was in the case. For just an instant, it had been as if he'd never seen it before, but then, of course, he'd remembered the gifts for Queen Berry and Prince Ruth. That had been a really smart idea on Marketing's part, he conceded. Every young woman he'd ever met had liked expensive perfume, whether she was willing to admit it or not.
He relaxed again, humming softly, at peace with the universe.

tlb wrote:With the incident in the throne run, the nanites had already kicked in, but at a very low level and were keeping the patsy happy and not too sure why he was carrying a briefcase. This is the only such incident of which we are aware, where the nanites were already exerting some control.

Somtaaw wrote:I'm not so sure that was the body-control nanites really. William Henry Tyler was a pharmaceutical representative for the Solarian League, so it's quite probably he was pure civilian. If true, he had no defenses from adjustment, which is a known behavioural and psychological control method. The first 'investigators' thought Tim Meares had also been adjusted as well, but being naval they figured he must have been adjusted months or years previously.

That sense of euphoria, combined with being confused about why he even had the briefcase and then "oh thats right" would go hand in hand with his mind having been adjusted, and a cover story planted on his mind. The nanites were also present, but if Queen Berry had never actually shown up that day, they would never have activated and Mister Tyler would have had to come back, with his 'perfume samples'.

As Jonathan mentioned, even upon direct questioning, the cat responsible for that meeting merely thought he was being slightly suspicious but nothing concrete. Meanwhile, Tim Meares didn't trigger Honor's empathic senses until he went live and that was a glaring tipoff.

The nanites seem to sit and watch, and wait patiently, much like the Silver Bullets. They're either totally passive and watching, or in control and either making you physically do something. Whether it's more active like Tim Meares, William Henry Tyler, or Yves Grosclaude, or more passive like all the Alignment Covert Operatives suddenly dropping dead upon being 'arrested'.