How does Honor know so much?

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:There is only so much IQ that can be mined before side effects negate it all. I think the MA milked that cow dry.

I never said the other accoutrements were not important to be labeled as a "modern" Alpha. I am only saying that for the sake of our discussion about Honor, all is equal. All of the added options of the MA's Alphas won't ever come into play on the battlefield. On the battlefield it will come down to strategy and tactics. And not whether one can withstand insane elements, or if one has staying power in bed.

As tlb said above, we don't know for sure that all that could be done has been done. Given the state of Beowulf's prohibition on the experimentation, I'm pretty sure Beowulf wouldn't know for sure. They'd know that there could be side-effects, but not what workarounds for those side-effects might be.

Plus, the MAlign might be more accepting of side-effects. Intelligence makes a person a sociopath? That's a feature, not a bug!

Either way, the point remains: the MAlign has continued to do genetic experimentation for 5 centuries since the loss of contact with the Harringtons. That implies they've done something. Lots of somethings. Even if they were all "nice to have" improvements, they've accumulated. Like in the analogy of cars, we it would be like saying that the engine was perfected 70 years ago, but now we have nicer entertainment systems, air conditioning, remote telemetry, tire pressure sensors, power windows, etc. And no, neither engines nor aerodynamics were perfected 70 years ago.

The MAlign decides what an Alpha is. We don't know that they wouldn't call Honor Alpha, but we don't know that they would either. In my opinion, the most likely would point to not being so, because she has 10-13 generations of non-eugenetic ancestry and none of the splicing since.

cthia wrote:Sociopathy makes people a sociopath. Too much intellect makes people stupid. It is a lack of common sense. A lack of common sense seems to be the MA side effect. Something has to suffer. It is the human element all over again. Man has a distinct limitation. We will never be God.

cthia wrote:

Theemile wrote:
I had a Magnum SRT back in the mid 2000's that I put into a concrete highway divider when the rear end slid out from under me while merging into rush hour highway traffic - a slick patch of tar, a few weeks of surface oil buildup and that first September rain turned my overpowered rear end into a plaything of physics. Add in the other idiots reactions on the road and I had no choice but put it into the concrete - it was that or into that Grand Cherokee who saw me losing control in his rear view mirror, and slammed on his brakes.

Now don't call me unprepared - previously, I had bought a Porsche 944 with the top end handling package back when I graduated college. I had had a handful of upgraded light sports cars previously, but was simply unprepared for a machine like that. Smartly, I took some track classes. When I say I have done virtually every stupid car trick in that car (other than jumps, you just can't do that stuff in a car with 2.5" ground clearance), I'm not kidding - it hugged the road like an over possessive mother. You don't feel the road - you are the road. The family friend I had purchased it from told me that it wasn't the fastest car out there, but it will get from point A to B faster than anyone else - because you just don't need to slow down. Hell, I even made a cop buddy wet his pants after he asked me to show him what the car could do...

Well, the Magnum wasn't that. It sat on an upgraded S-Class suspension with a limited slip differential in the rear, and the 6.1L engine could make it moooove (Ironically it was only about as fast as the 944 with the DME tripped into race mode). It was a bruiser, pure muscle, no finesse.

So Yeah - those overpowered monsters can kill you - experienced and trained or not.

Good reading. I enjoyed it. Glad you are alive to tell the story. I am sorry the 944 didn't make it. I loved that car. I coveted that car in college myself. I wanted one badly. But not as badly as I wanted to keep my 924. It wasn't the turbo model. I like normally aspirated engines. It was a very sexy car. I enjoyed it as much when it was parked as when I was driving it. LOL

But I am all about road feel. And the Porsches and BMW's deliver. "You are the road." I like it.

I enjoy driving when driving let's me enjoy it. I like to see the world and enjoy traveling. I want to enjoy the highway. I don't mind going through small towns and back roads in a Porsche or BMW. I even prefer it. I want something that hugs the road. I like to bond with my car.

About that Hellcat. Thing is, you can kick out the rear end with the black key. The black key is simply the lesser of two evils.

My brother let my sister drive his Hellcat. He has always been a speed demon since his '72 'Cuda. She said to him, "The damn thing is still dangerous with the black key!"

And then she said to him, "Why would you want a car so dangerous that you've got to hide the key? So your kid will find your car keys and your gun too? And what if someone in the equation is color blind? And why would a human want a car with two keys when we can't keep up with one?"

"It is an all around car."

"All around the nearest tree?"


Decades ago my Aunt visited Italy. She loved it so much she stayed for a few years. She wanted to see the running of the bulls. When she returned she commented. "Why do Italians turn their cars into uncontrollable bulls? Of all people they should know that sooner or later you are going to get bucked."

I never made that connection until now. Horses are turned into bucking broncos.

P.S. kzt, BMW offers a driver's course. It is exhilarating. They will also put you in a mock-up frame of your model car and tailor it to your specifications in certain areas. Like knee bolster. It feels like getting fitted for a suit. Nice touch. You can even watch your car coming off the assembly line.

For the M-series cars that is. I had the M5.

Oh, Jonathan! I hear that some drivers prefer disabling ABS when "drifting." I don't know, I have never drifted before. Unless it was an accident. LOL

Drifting is a new fad which originated in Japan. Basically you use your emergency brake to slide around a turn.

Late edit: My badd. It was the Magnum that hit the concrete divide. Let's save the Porsches.


.

cthia wrote:

Theemile wrote:
I had a Magnum SRT back in the mid 2000's that I put into a concrete highway divider when the rear end slid out from under me while merging into rush hour highway traffic - a slick patch of tar, a few weeks of surface oil buildup and that first September rain turned my overpowered rear end into a plaything of physics. Add in the other idiots reactions on the road and I had no choice but put it into the concrete - it was that or into that Grand Cherokee who saw me losing control in his rear view mirror, and slammed on his brakes.

Now don't call me unprepared - previously, I had bought a Porsche 944 with the top end handling package back when I graduated college. I had had a handful of upgraded light sports cars previously, but was simply unprepared for a machine like that. Smartly, I took some track classes. When I say I have done virtually every stupid car trick in that car (other than jumps, you just can't do that stuff in a car with 2.5" ground clearance), I'm not kidding - it hugged the road like an over possessive mother. You don't feel the road - you are the road. The family friend I had purchased it from told me that it wasn't the fastest car out there, but it will get from point A to B faster than anyone else - because you just don't need to slow down. Hell, I even made a cop buddy wet his pants after he asked me to show him what the car could do...

Well, the Magnum wasn't that. It sat on an upgraded S-Class suspension with a limited slip differential in the rear, and the 6.1L engine could make it moooove (Ironically it was only about as fast as the 944 with the DME tripped into race mode). It was a bruiser, pure muscle, no finesse.

So Yeah - those overpowered monsters can kill you - experienced and trained or not.

Good reading. I enjoyed it. Glad you are alive to tell the story. I am sorry the 944 didn't make it. I loved that car. I coveted that car in college myself. I wanted one badly. But not as badly as I wanted to keep my 924. It wasn't the turbo model. I like normally aspirated engines. It was a very sexy car. I enjoyed it as much when it was parked as when I was driving it. LOL

But I am all about road feel. And the Porsches and BMW's deliver. "You are the road." I like it.

I enjoy driving when driving let's me enjoy it. I like to see the world and enjoy traveling. I want to enjoy the highway. I don't mind going through small towns and back roads in a Porsche or BMW. I even prefer it. I want something that hugs the road. I like to bond with my car.

About that Hellcat. Thing is, you can kick out the rear end with the black key. The black key is simply the lesser of two evils.

My brother let my sister drive his Hellcat. He has always been a speed demon since his '72 'Cuda. She said to him, "The damn thing is still dangerous with the black key!"

And then she said to him, "Why would you want a car so dangerous that you've got to hide the key? So your kid will find your car keys and your gun too? And what if someone in the equation is color blind? And why would a human want a car with two keys when we can't keep up with one?"

"It is an all around car."

"All around the nearest tree?"


Decades ago my Aunt visited Italy. She loved it so much she stayed for a few years. She wanted to see the running of the bulls. When she returned she commented. "Why do Italians turn their cars into uncontrollable bulls? Of all people they should know that sooner or later you are going to get bucked."

I never made that connection until now. Horses are turned into bucking broncos.

P.S. kzt, BMW offers a driver's course. It is exhilarating. They will also put you in a mock-up frame of your model car and tailor it to your specifications in certain areas. Like knee bolster. It feels like getting fitted for a suit. Nice touch. You can even watch your car coming off the assembly line.

For the M-series cars that is. I had the M5.

Oh, Jonathan! I hear that some drivers prefer disabling ABS when "drifting." I don't know, I have never drifted before. Unless it was an accident. LOL

Drifting is a new fad which originated in Japan. Basically you use your emergency brake to slide around a turn.

Late edit: My badd. It was the Magnum that hit the concrete divide. Let's save the Porsches.


.

Theemile wrote:Sheila, the Magnum, came back from that accident - I had a ~28 degree roll when I when I slid sideways into the concrete, and I had recovered the yaw enough that it was only ~7 degrees, so my side collision was almost parallel. (I had enough roll, my side mirror didn't even touch the Jersey Rail.) Virtually the entire force was absorbed by the wheels and the rest went into the car's underbody rail. Very minor body work - some paint and rust inhibitor, 2 new rims & tires, 2 wheel bearings, and she was back on the road - almost insignificant for an accident with concrete at 60 mph. I got to enjoy her for another 5 years.

Faust, the 944, took a near-lightening strike some years back, and even though I poured thousands into replacing the faults in the electrical system, I never found all the faults. I finally got down to the collimator coil in the Alternator.... and kinda gave up. He became a garage queen for a few years, and I finally sold him off in 2020 when we had to move for my new position. It was sad, but he hadn't been a reliable driver in well over a decade.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:There is only so much IQ that can be mined before side effects negate it all. I think the MA milked that cow dry.

I never said the other accoutrements were not important to be labeled as a "modern" Alpha. I am only saying that for the sake of our discussion about Honor, all is equal. All of the added options of the MA's Alphas won't ever come into play on the battlefield. On the battlefield it will come down to strategy and tactics. And not whether one can withstand insane elements, or if one has staying power in bed.

As tlb said above, we don't know for sure that all that could be done has been done. Given the state of Beowulf's prohibition on the experimentation, I'm pretty sure Beowulf wouldn't know for sure. They'd know that there could be side-effects, but not what workarounds for those side-effects might be.

Plus, the MAlign might be more accepting of side-effects. Intelligence makes a person a sociopath? That's a feature, not a bug!

Either way, the point remains: the MAlign has continued to do genetic experimentation for 5 centuries since the loss of contact with the Harringtons. That implies they've done something. Lots of somethings. Even if they were all "nice to have" improvements, they've accumulated. Like in the analogy of cars, we it would be like saying that the engine was perfected 70 years ago, but now we have nicer entertainment systems, air conditioning, remote telemetry, tire pressure sensors, power windows, etc. And no, neither engines nor aerodynamics were perfected 70 years ago.

The MAlign decides what an Alpha is. We don't know that they wouldn't call Honor Alpha, but we don't know that they would either. In my opinion, the most likely would point to not being so, because she has 10-13 generations of non-eugenetic ancestry and none of the splicing since.

cthia wrote:What frightens me about the MA is that the text about Galton indicated there was a split trom the original MA. That means even the current MA can split even more, which could suggest an even more antagonistic MA.

And some posters still question whether the sociopathic MA will actually accept carrying out Eridani violations.

Anyway, rogue elements frighten me. The result of too much IQ and not enough common sense is the God complex.

When Honor was made, they should have broke the mold.

Why do I see medical scales in the MA's labs when I think about their genetic research. Just a little more IQ (nudging the little weight to the right with the finger). Nope, too much IQ, common sense suffers. Nudge the little weight back a little to the left until the scale balances out. Nudge, nudge. There!

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:What frightens me about the MA is that the text about Galton indicated there was a split trom the original MA. That means even the current MA can split even more, which could suggest an even more antagonistic MA.

Galton wasn't a split as much as a cut-out. Though a split is the cover story that was fed to Audrey O'Hanrahan to explain what the GF would find when they arrived in Galton. But that's what it was: a cover story. In reality, both systems were still controlled by the same Onion.

However, there was a split on Mesa because the MAlign kept most of the members that thought they were part of something called "the Alignment" in the dark about said alignment's true purposes. Those were completely in the dark about the Alignment's military and industrial capacity, or that it secretly controlled their arch-enemy, Manpower Inc.

One might wonder how much the population of Galton is told about the true objectives and how much of the Darius is. My guess is "not much" to either. In Galton, the population veered much more overtly militaristic, and imposing their vision through force. Meanwhile, the general population in Darius probably has no clue how the vision will be imposed/implemented in the first place.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:And some posters still question whether the sociopathic MA will actually accept carrying out Eridani violations.

How can anyone question that which has been established they would do, when they feel the ends justify it?

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:Anyway, rogue elements frighten me. The result of too much IQ and not enough common sense is the God complex.

Good point. We haven't seen dissidence from the Inner Onion yet, the likes of Detweiler, Bardasano, Anisimovna, the people who were running Galton. The closest we've seen is the Inner Outer Onion, the McBryde level. But one would expect this to happen, as all of those really intelligent people with a superiority complex would be apt to decide their way is the best way, not the current ruler's.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:When Honor was made, they should have broke the mold.

Considering that there was no mold in the first place (no specific genetic sequencing), that's effectively what's happened. Otherwise, they'd have corrected for the inability to regenerate.

cthia wrote:Why do I see medical scales in the MA's labs when I think about their genetic research. Just a little more IQ (nudging the little weight to the right with the finger). Nope, too much IQ, common sense suffers. Nudge the little weight back a little to the left until the scale balances out. Nudge, nudge. There!

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Fair enough, but let me raise you: common sense is not that common. More to the point, it can shift with time.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:As tlb said above, we don't know for sure that all that could be done has been done. Given the state of Beowulf's prohibition on the experimentation, I'm pretty sure Beowulf wouldn't know for sure. They'd know that there could be side-effects, but not what workarounds for those side-effects might be.

Plus, the MAlign might be more accepting of side-effects. Intelligence makes a person a sociopath? That's a feature, not a bug!

cthia wrote:If the MA is accepting of side effects, doesn't that in itself denounce a problem with their intellect and research? After all, the side effects are not what the research was shooting for. Besides, they weren't exactly thrilled with the Bardasano gene.

The fact that Honor performs so well, in conjunction with her unprecedented abilities with the Treecats, might that just mean that Honor's genetic mixture is closer to perfection?