Puzzling lack of Galton system deterrence

Reading To End in Fire, I was 75% expecting some message like this to come from the Galton system commander:

"Intruders, be advised that your presence here is considered illegal by Galton system command. As such, if you continue to intrude upon our system, we will remote-detonate an undisclosed number of nuclear charges hidden in various cities and/or orbital habitats throughout the Star Empire and the Republic of Haven. Leave immediately or the first detonation command will be sent. You have one hour."

It would just be so much in line with what they had done to Beowolf, and really their only option if in fact Galton was their final base, as they wanted the GA to believe. Their failure to employ such a tactic should have been an enormous signal to the GA that Galton was not in fact their innermost base.

As to the technical details of pulling it off, a few stealthed destroyers and/or automated comm drones stilling well outside the hyper limit should be about all that you'd need.

NebulousAnswer wrote:Reading To End in Fire, I was 75% expecting some message like this to come from the Galton system commander:

"Intruders, be advised that your presence here is considered illegal by Galton system command. As such, if you continue to intrude upon our system, we will remote-detonate an undisclosed number of nuclear charges hidden in various cities and/or orbital habitats throughout the Star Empire and the Republic of Haven. Leave immediately or the first detonation command will be sent. You have one hour."

It would just be so much in line with what they had done to Beowolf, and really their only option if in fact Galton was their final base, as they wanted the GA to believe. Their failure to employ such a tactic should have been an enormous signal to the GA that Galton was not in fact their innermost base.

As to the technical details of pulling it off, a few stealthed destroyers and/or automated comm drones stilling well outside the hyper limit should be about all that you'd need.

I am not sure that is an act of deterrence; anyone trying that trick needs to be taken down hard and fast (as Galton was). The problem is that anyone willing to attempt this, will repeat it; so the only avenue open is to make sure that it cannot be repeated. Basically the bombs going off, is a sign that Galton must be destroyed.

This is similar to the discussion thread entitled "Post League Eridani", the premise of some of the posters was that anyone trying to enforce the Eridani Edict was opening itself to an Eridani attack. So it is necessary to weigh the costs of enforcing the Edict versus allowing someone to violate the Edict.

We have discussed problems in the way that Galton was defended, but I do not think that this was one of them.

PS: welcome to the forum.

NebulousAnswer wrote:As to the technical details of pulling it off, a few stealthed destroyers and/or automated comm drones stilling well outside the hyper limit should be about all that you'd need.

Hello NebulousAnswer, welcome to the forum.

There's no such thing as an automated hyper-capable ship or drone in the Honorverse, for plot reasons. There doesn't seem to be any technical limitation that we've been told, but they don't exist.

Even if they did, Galton is in the middle of nowhere. They'd have to beat the ships that would immediately go off to take that information home to prevent such a transmission and find those bombs (one would think that if they could have found them, they would have found them already). And those drones would be unable to transit through known wormholes, even if they were capable of that, because they couldn't communicate with traffic control to perform such a transit. All the ones leading to the Haven sector are probably still under guard by the GF, even if control has been restored to their owners.

This is where cthia comes in and suggests that the MAlign, because they're alphas, might have invented hyper-capable ships that can reach the Kappa band (streak drive) and that one of the termini of the Felix wormhole (not the Twins' one) does lead back to the Haven sector.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:This is where cthia comes in and suggests that the MAlign, because they're alphas, might have invented hyper-capable ships that can reach the Kappa band (streak drive) and that one of the termini of the Felix wormhole (not the Twins' one) does lead back to the Haven sector.

You do not need cthia to point out that Galton's ships do have a speed advantage in hyperspace because the Malign DID invent the streak drive. The Grand Alliance does not yet have a working model, so far as we know.

However I did not think that the Felix wormhole was anywhere near Galton, nevertheless Galton courier boats could use any wormhole.

tlb wrote:

ThinksMarkedly wrote:This is where cthia comes in and suggests that the MAlign, because they're alphas, might have invented hyper-capable ships that can reach the Kappa band (streak drive) and that one of the termini of the Felix wormhole (not the Twins' one) does lead back to the Haven sector.

You do not need cthia to point out that Galton's ships do have a speed advantage in hyperspace because the Malign DID invent the streak drive. The Grand Alliance does not yet have a working model, so far as we know.

However I did not think that the Felix wormhole was anywhere near Galton, nevertheless Galton courier boats could use any wormhole.

Why ThinksMarkedly! You seem to be getting to know me a little, or your literary imagination has been turned on!

BTW, I suggested quite some time ago that one of the termini may conveniently, fortuitously and forebodingly lead into the Haven sector. The suggestion most likely lies in Attacking Darius or Wormhole Assault: MA Style or the venerable ? thread.

Like, come on, if the author is going to finally deliver us a worthy adversary like many of us have been whining about, he is going to have to negate some of the Alliance's advantages.

The Streak drive helps, but a hidden WH into the Haven sector goes even further. Pardon the pun.

NebulousAnswer wrote:Reading To End in Fire, I was 75% expecting some message like this to come from the Galton system commander:

"Intruders, be advised that your presence here is considered illegal by Galton system command. As such, if you continue to intrude upon our system, we will remote-detonate an undisclosed number of nuclear charges hidden in various cities and/or orbital habitats throughout the Star Empire and the Republic of Haven. Leave immediately or the first detonation command will be sent. You have one hour."

It would just be so much in line with what they had done to Beowolf, and really their only option if in fact Galton was their final base, as they wanted the GA to believe. Their failure to employ such a tactic should have been an enormous signal to the GA that Galton was not in fact their innermost base.

As to the technical details of pulling it off, a few stealthed destroyers and/or automated comm drones stilling well outside the hyper limit should be about all that you'd need.

Or, as I also suggested elsewhere, why not go for the obvious deterrent.

"You bother us, and we will turn your planets into broken erector sets."

The GA can't hit what the GA can't see. The MA are Alphas. Like mice, they have more than one hole to run to. Like ants, you will simply stumble over another anthill. Fire ants!

"Mom, why do we own two houses?"

"Only a poor rat has just one hole to run to."

Beware double post.

I suppose I was thinking of this because a) they had just pulled off a hidden bomb attack in Beowulf and b) Honor encountered something similar in, IIRC, Silesia, where a local small-time dictator had emplaced nukes in cities all over his planet, and HH surprise-capped him with a .45. Good times.

In any event, I suppose you wouldn't even need a courier boat or message drone or some such - just a few deep cover operatives scattered throughout the galaxy with detonation codes. All they'd have to do is watch the news, and if they see a story that the GA has occupied Galton, boom.

Perhaps they're saving this tactic for the defense of Darius? And their lack of employing it will tip off Victor and co. that they need to keep digging?

tlb wrote:You do not need cthia to point out that Galton's ships do have a speed advantage in hyperspace because the Malign DID invent the streak drive. The Grand Alliance does not yet have a working model, so far as we know.

Sorry, I meant to write hyper-capable drone ships.

However I did not think that the Felix wormhole was anywhere near Galton, nevertheless Galton courier boats could use any wormhole.

AFAWK, the closest wormhole to Galton is the Warner-Mannerheim one and it's 200 light-years away. The evidence is that it's the only wormhole that the slavers that populated Galton used. Maybe some wormhole has been discovered closer to it since then.

We actually do know one that has since been discovered: Felix. It's 12 light-years from Mannerheim, though we don't know if it's in the direction to Galton or the opposite of it. Most likely, it's somewhere in-between, so the distance is still around 200 light-years. If Felix has a terminus that allows a transit to somewhere near the Haven sector, then such a drone could beat the GF forces sent back. The GF couriers would go back via Mannerheim to Warner, from Warner to Beowulf (a week?), then get to Manticore; thence to San Martin and Gregor and another week or two to Haven and New Berlin.

I said it couldn't be the Twins because I was thinking of going through the Congo System and that is not anywhere near the Haven sector. They'd have to use the Erewhon Junction to get to Terre Haute, then a few days to Henessy, then the MWHJ. There's no way an unknown drone could transit either wormhole. But it's possible the Twins themselves are somewhere close.

NebulousAnswer wrote:Perhaps they're saving this tactic for the defense of Darius? And their lack of employing it will tip off Victor and co. that they need to keep digging?

There are people in the thread that believe the Malign will go on a planet wrecking spree if Darius is close to discovery (for example, see cthia in this thread). Others doubt that is a worthwhile tactic (like me, but the author did leave a loophole) and believe that finding a more distant hiding place as a backup to Darius would be a better idea.

But I want to emphasize that this works as an incentive to blasting Darius, not as a deterrent. Note that one of the Detweilers admitted that the bonbing of the Beowulf orbitals was a mistake during his visit to Galton.

NebulousAnswer wrote:It would just be so much in line with what they had done to Beowolf, and really their only option if in fact Galton was their final base, as they wanted the GA to believe. Their failure to employ such a tactic should have been an enormous signal to the GA that Galton was not in fact their innermost base.

The problem with that scenario is that then everyone would sit up and take notice of what the GA has been saying all along. It would also definitely tell everyone that someone willing to nuke civilian population centers in such fashion is most likely also behind the destruction on Mesa.

The whole point with Galton was to provide a plausible end for the bad guys, but if there is any trace left that points to that was not the case, senseless nuking's will only make the GA look at such evidence so much harder. It's entirely possible other starnations will also start looking - and that is something the MAlign doesn't really want because they can't be sure that they have eliminated all the loose ends.

NebulousAnswer wrote:As to the technical details of pulling it off, a few stealthed destroyers and/or automated comm drones stilling well outside the hyper limit should be about all that you'd need.

There is no such thing as automated comm drones that can travel in hyper, which is why courier ships are a thing.