Human Treecat Names

tlb wrote:

tlb wrote:I fail to see how that is different between hetero versus homosexual activity. What exactly do you think a homosexual couple radiates that is so different, particularly when cats are "utterly disinterested ... in human sexuality"?

cthia wrote:The shock value is what's different.

Imagine decades ago when homosexuality was virtually in the closet and someone totally unfamiliar with the concept sees it. You might not know how to process it. Again, as it is even today here on Earth.

Why would treecats be shocked about sex in a different species? Are you shocked when you see Chimpanzees have sex? With Bonobos, the sex could be hetero or homosexual; but why would you care? From Scientific America:

Bonobos engage in sex in virtually every partner combination (although such contact among close family members may be suppressed). And sexual interactions occur more often among bonobos than among other primates.

For the same reason I think, if Samantha, or Honor, or Beth walked in and caught Nimitz shtupping Ariel.

I am not saying that they'd care. Well, perhaps Samantha. I am just saying either may be a bit shocked, and need a moment to ... process it???

And yes, I am aware that in the animal kingdom today there seems to be some bisexuality. But do we all think the author may give us a homosexual treecat couple?

I hope its an open marriage so they can still make treecat babies. That species can not afford to be "shooting blanks".

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:To be frank, but probably not popular, it may be better to leave Shannon without a bodyguard, because if a spy infiltrates Bolthole, the GA may have a much bigger problem than the safety of Shannon. If Shannon is assassinated, that tips the hand that Bolthole has been compromised. The brighter side.

So you think only a successful assassination of Shannon would indicate that Bolthole had been compromised?

An assassination of Shannon may NOT prove that Bolthole has been compromised, not necessarily, I admit; even if it has, since the mighty Manties seem kinda slow to come up with the answers nowadays. But it should raise the alarm. DEFCON 3?

tlb wrote:I would have thought it wiser to catch the infiltrator before anything so drastic occurred and to do that the more cats the better.

That is your prerogative.

I, on the other hand, would rather them set off the alarm by assassinating one person which sounds the alarm, rather than show up with a dozen LDs and totally FU all of Bolthole.

Kzt's flaming datum is a shitty way to find out you've been compromised. With so many Cats on the ground, no "less disastrous" assassination attempt might be made.

tlb wrote:

tlb wrote:I fail to see how that is different between hetero versus homosexual activity. What exactly do you think a homosexual couple radiates that is so different, particularly when cats are "utterly disinterested ... in human sexuality"?

cthia wrote:The shock value is what's different.

Imagine decades ago when homosexuality was virtually in the closet and someone totally unfamiliar with the concept sees it. You might not know how to process it. Again, as it is even today here on Earth.

Why would treecats be shocked about sex in a different species? Are you shocked when you see Chimpanzees have sex? With Bonobos, the sex could be hetero or homosexual; but why would you care?

It's not even shock value... Emily LITERALLY couldn't have sex. Of any form. She tells Honor herself that aside from maybe 20% of her one arm+hand, she hasn't felt anything below her neck in DECADES.

Honorverse isn't a hentai, Emily isn't the kind of lady who is going to orgasm from merely holding hands. Let alone interlocking fingers like some kinda pervert! This is a PG-13 story, there will be no finger interlocking in text!


Every time Honor ever came to Emily and felt the need for something more emotional/loving, it was always touching Emily's (good) hand, or kneeling down so she could put Emily's hand to her own face. Every single time. That was the only way left to show any affection that Emily could genuinely feel, and not merely be told it. Hamish was the same, hand-touching or using Emily's hand to cup his face. The only other option was a kiss, and even there I can't think of many times Emily got a kiss on-text/on-scene that was lip to lip, it was rare she even got a kiss on the cheek.

Somtaaw wrote:It's not even shock value... Emily LITERALLY couldn't have sex. Of any form. She tells Honor herself that aside from maybe 20% of her one arm+hand, she hasn't felt anything below her neck in DECADES.

To be clear; I was not saying that it was impossible for Emily to engage in sex play, only that it was unlikely. But in thinking about the medical problem, I now wonder if the Honorverse is being inconsistent; consider Honor herself, she lost an eye and an arm and has had all the nerves on one side of her face destroyed. Yet she is fully functional with electro-mechanical replacements.

So if the problem with Emily is just nerve damage, then why can't she receive the same sort of nerve replacements that Honor had to restore her face? If there is also muscle or ligament damage, then why not mechanical replacements.

This might still be insufficient to engage in all activities. She might end up as much more cyborg than Honor; but it ought to release her from the life support chair.

tlb wrote:So if the problem with Emily is just nerve damage, then why can't she receive the same sort of nerve replacements that Honor had to restore her face? If there is also muscle or ligament damage, then why not mechanical replacements.

Well Honor's affected nerves were the peripheral ones on her face; while Emily's were almost all the ones in her spinal cord (it was almost completely severed by the accident)

IIRC they tried pretty much everything, so if nerve replacement in the spinal cord had been a possibility I'm sure they tried it (implying that if so it hadn't worked). But it may just not be possible due to the conditions there (as opposed to the far more exposed/accessible nerves near the skin surface)

tlb wrote:So if the problem with Emily is just nerve damage, then why can't she receive the same sort of nerve replacements that Honor had to restore her face? If there is also muscle or ligament damage, then why not mechanical replacements.

Jonathan_S wrote:Well Honor's affected nerves were the peripheral ones on her face; while Emily's were almost all the ones in her spinal cord (it was almost completely severed by the accident)

IIRC they tried pretty much everything, so if nerve replacement in the spinal cord had been a possibility I'm sure they tried it (implying that if so it hadn't worked). But it may just not be possible due to the conditions there (as opposed to the far more exposed/accessible nerves near the skin surface)

I agree that rewiring the spinal column might be too big a task; but let's consider something simpler: Emily has the use of one hand, which implies that the spinal damage was below the point where nerves for the arms diverge. I do not think that getting full function in her arms is that much harder than getting Honor's face to behave naturally. Even full function in one arm would be an advance over the current 20%.

tlb wrote:

tlb wrote:So if the problem with Emily is just nerve damage, then why can't she receive the same sort of nerve replacements that Honor had to restore her face? If there is also muscle or ligament damage, then why not mechanical replacements.

Jonathan_S wrote:Well Honor's affected nerves were the peripheral ones on her face; while Emily's were almost all the ones in her spinal cord (it was almost completely severed by the accident)

IIRC they tried pretty much everything, so if nerve replacement in the spinal cord had been a possibility I'm sure they tried it (implying that if so it hadn't worked). But it may just not be possible due to the conditions there (as opposed to the far more exposed/accessible nerves near the skin surface)

I agree that rewiring the spinal column might be too big a task; but let's consider something simpler: Emily has the use of one hand, which implies that the spinal damage was below the point where nerves for the arms diverge. I do not think that getting full function in her arms is that much harder than getting Honor's face to behave naturally. Even full function in one arm would be an advance over the current 20%.

I think much of Manticore shares Honor's/RMN's level of revulsion to the mentioned planets that whole-heartedly embrace cyborgization. Replacing an entire arm or leg with a prosthesis was considered routine, but Honor and seemingly Emily rejected going to that far an extreme because of arguments like "not natural".

And to Emily specifically, I think it had quite a lot to do with that whole losing all (other) sense of touch. If she replaced that one arm to get 100% functionality back, she'd lose any ability to touch things (and feel it) on her own free will, without rubbing it against her own face which wasn't always possible. Hamish would have had to initiate every intimate touch, otherwise she wouldn't even know unless she could physically see it happening (gets dark outside and she'd have no idea he touched her hand or even shoulder).

She was still able to both read and writing holodramas that she could no longer star in, and built the reputation of being among the Kingdom's very best writers.

She'd still require an assistant despite having a 100% functional robotic arm for virtually everything she needs help doing with only a 20% biological arm. So she loses a lot of what little she had left after the accident, for precious little (if any) actual benefits.


I'm torn between agreeing with Emily that keeping even a 20% arm is better than going full robotic and STILL being trapped in that chair, and agreeing with her mother that... if it were me in that position, I'd prefer assisted death with dignity, than a life of being a prisoner within my own body.

tlb wrote:Emily has the use of one hand, which implies that the spinal damage was below the point where nerves for the arms diverge. I do not think that getting full function in her arms is that much harder than getting Honor's face to behave naturally. Even full function in one arm would be an advance over the current 20%.

Somtaaw wrote:I think much of Manticore shares Honor's/RMN's level of revulsion to the mentioned planets that whole-heartedly embrace cyborgization. Replacing an entire arm or leg with a prosthesis was considered routine, but Honor and seemingly Emily rejected going to that far an extreme because of arguments like "not natural".

And to Emily specifically, I think it had quite a lot to do with that whole losing all (other) sense of touch. If she replaced that one arm to get 100% functionality back, she'd lose any ability to touch things (and feel it) on her own free will, without rubbing it against her own face which wasn't always possible. Hamish would have had to initiate every intimate touch, otherwise she wouldn't even know unless she could physically see it happening (gets dark outside and she'd have no idea he touched her hand or even shoulder).

She was still able to both read and writing holodramas that she could no longer star in, and built the reputation of being among the Kingdom's very best writers.

She'd still require an assistant despite having a 100% functional robotic arm for virtually everything she needs help doing with only a 20% biological arm. So she loses a lot of what little she had left after the accident, for precious little (if any) actual benefits.


I'm torn between agreeing with Emily that keeping even a 20% arm is better than going full robotic and STILL being trapped in that chair, and agreeing with her mother that... if it were me in that position, I'd prefer assisted death with dignity, than a life of being a prisoner within my own body.

Replacing destroyed nerves with artificial ones still permits the sensation of touch; although Honor does indicate that it does not feel totally natural. That was what I thought could be done with one or both of her arms, if the only damage was with the nerves. Since they ought not replacing the working nerves, she should still have the 20% natural joined to perhaps the rest artificial. With at least one fully functional arm, she would not need as much assistance.

So I do not think that the change (if possible) is as bad as you say.

tlb wrote:

Shannon_Foraker wrote:What do you think Sonja's treecat name might be?

In To End in Fire we learn that her guard-cat's name is Hunts Silently, but we do not see the cat think of her name.

That's an un-adopted treecat, so he hasn't got a new name.

My guess her treecat name is "Makes Impossible Possible."