Hubble Videos

Louis R wrote:The Big Bang is only a theory?

The theory I'm referring to is that there was nothing, then there was a point source which became a Big Bang, thus starting our universe. Which infers there was nothing, then something, and thus a beginning.

I'm saying that the universe we see has always been here, with no beginning. Infinite in size, mass, energy, etc...

Can you prove otherwise?

Louis R wrote:The Big Bang is only a theory?

Of course, so is Universal Gravitation. If you've worked for _any_ part of an aircraft company one would hope you've acquired at least a grudging appreciation of its theoretical character.

I put in 33 years at Douglas/McDonell-Douglas while getting a BA in Math at UCLA, with early two years at Kalamazoo College in Mich... My work was on and with the big scientific computers. starting in late 1957 through 1992. 16 months military service. My work started as a computer operator and progressed to Assistant manager, then to Operating System Software programmer after I graduated from UCLA. Self-taught programmer. My last ten years at work was on a Top-Secret project, and some of my code is still in use.

Since early retirement I have built two homebuilt aircraft and helped on many more. Pilot license at 58 and flew for many years. Also, many tears of building and flying many Radio-Controlled model planes.

I do believe in Big Bangs, just think more than just one. This universe has been around forever.

What are the qualifications of you, Louis R.?

sonex wrote:

Louis R wrote:The Big Bang is only a theory?

The theory I'm referring to is that there was nothing, then there was a point source which became a Big Bang, thus starting our universe. Which infers there was nothing, then something, and thus a beginning.

I'm saying that the universe we see has always been here, with no beginning. Infinite in size, mass, energy, etc...

Can you prove otherwise?

My own theory is that the universe goes through cycles of expansion and contraction, a never ending series of Big Bangs separated by billions of years. I also like the idea that some sort of collective subconscious survives these cycles and persists as threads of human memory. Many of our legends of magic and myth could be stuff that happened in previous cycles. Who knows, maybe in some future cycle, Eric Clapton really will be a god.

sonex wrote:I put in 33 years at Douglas/McDonell-Douglas while getting a BA in Math at UCLA, with early two years at Kalamazoo College in Mich... My work was on and with the big scientific computers. starting in late 1957 through 1992. 16 months military service. My work started as a computer operator and progressed to Assistant manager, then to Operating System Software programmer after I graduated from UCLA. Self-taught programmer. My last ten years at work was on a Top-Secret project, and some of my code is still in use.

Since early retirement I have built two homebuilt aircraft and helped on many more. Pilot license at 58 and flew for many years. Also, many tears of building and flying many Radio-Controlled model planes.

I do believe in Big Bangs, just think more than just one. This universe has been around forever.

What are the qualifications of you, Louis R.?

suspiciously absent amongst all those qualifications? astrophysics degrees.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that to denigrate or belittle you and your intellect, the stuff you listed in your little cv there is impressive, but none of it really allows you to make firm statements about the early universe beyond vague beliefs and feelings you might have.
Now, I am not going to claim any special expertise on the subject either, I'm just a code monkey, but consider this: You're making statements like this one

The theory I'm referring to is that there was nothing, then there was a point source which became a Big Bang, thus starting our universe. Which infers there was nothing, then something, and thus a beginning.

and you're trying to position yourself in relation to them, but what you're actually doing is strawmanning an entire field of scientific enquiry that is so specialized and specific that the tools needed to gather data to make any firm statements one way or another cost billions of dollars and involve building particle accelerators the size of small cities or placing satellites at solar lagrange points.
What the big bang represents is an event horizon: something that is (philosophically speaking) a barrier to inquiry because we cannot gather data about anything beyond it given our current understanding of the universe.

So, in the spirit of the scientific method: Yes, the big bang is "a theory" (because theories are the highest possible form of formalized knowledge that we can arrive at using the tools of scientific inquiry), but so is your intuition that the big bang happened in a medium of some sort (except it's not a theory, if we're splitting hairs on the matter, because you do not have experimental or theoretical evidence to support that statement, thus making your belief just a hypothesis).

Point being, belief in science means accepting that there are things out there that you don't know, can't know (at this point in time) or that you may never know (given the limits of human lifespans and cognition). Getting into fights about this, trying to out-gotcha each other over semantics, is stupid and doesn't help anyone.

To The E.

I appreciate your response. I did not care for Lois R response.

I get older each day now, more so than just a few years ago.

OK, let's call it my hypothesis.

I've been monitoring stuff since graduating from high school back in '55. Back then the question was whether open or closed system. Eventually we learned it was open. Lately we see galaxies circling something. Let me check my notes. I'm referring to "Local Super Galaxy Cluster animation" which I found back in March of 2018. And now we see the "deep Field" shot from JWST. I want a shot focused beyond that one. Hopefully we will get one before I pass away. Being 85 it's just a matter of time!

I like Dr. Becky on YouTube. Watch a bit every week. So, I don't have any Astronomy degrees, I still have an inquisitive mind. I took a lot of math and physics courses during the 10 years I spent working on a degree while I worked on big scientific computers and programming support of same. Darn, I'm rambling.

Cheers,

sonex wrote:I spent some time on the Hubble Telescope Twitter tweets and enjoyed one where the area being viewed started at an apparently nearly empty section of the sky. Very few galaxies and stars in that section. Then succeeding views looked further and further into space. The views stopped at somewhere around 13+ billion light years. Each view following the first had many galaxies and stars.
Soon we will have a new improved telescope in orbit. What will it see if it looks past 14 billion light years in this same direction as you see in gbwhatsapp wallpaper
I think the universe is infinite so further looking will see more and more galaxies and stars.
What do others think

The unveiling of new and improved telescopes, like the upcoming James Webb Space Telescope, holds great promise for further exploration and discovery. With their advanced capabilities, these telescopes will peer deeper into space, potentially revealing more distant galaxies, providing insights into the early universe, and offering new perspectives on our cosmic existence.

I would suggest a kinder variation of the Dunning/Kruger effect. (As exemplified by Trump and his Trumpets).
Defined as "Too dumb to know about what they don't know".
In this case even brilliant people can be blindsided by new information that was not even contemplated before it appeared.

ennanirm wrote:

sonex wrote:I spent some time on the Hubble Telescope Twitter tweets and enjoyed one where the area being viewed started at an apparently nearly empty section of the sky. Very few galaxies and stars in that section. Then succeeding views looked further and further into space. The views stopped at somewhere around 13+ billion light years. Each view following the first had many galaxies and stars.
Soon we will have a new improved telescope in orbit. What will it see if it looks past 14 billion light years in this same direction as you see in gbwhatsapp wallpaper
I think the universe is infinite so further looking will see more and more galaxies and stars.
What do others think

The unveiling of new and improved telescopes, like the upcoming James Webb Space Telescope, holds great promise for further exploration and discovery. With their advanced capabilities, these telescopes will peer deeper into space, potentially revealing more distant galaxies, providing insights into the early universe, and offering new perspectives on our cosmic existence.