Cupid

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:But a bona fide 'union' -- as in marriage -- would make it official. As it stands, Victor could cut and run.

I could ask whether he would dare to do so

Victor is the only man who could run from Thandi, if he wanted to.

Thandi is the only woman whom Victor would not dare run from.

tlb wrote:I could ask whether he would dare to do so

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Victor is the only man who could run from Thandi, if he wanted to.

Thandi is the only woman whom Victor would not dare run from.

Those two sentences do not fit together well.

Let me try to put it this way: each has aspects that could create fear, but that is part of the excitement that they have with each other. Both take comfort in the fact that the other is attracted by that excitement, not repulsed.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:But a bona fide 'union' -- as in marriage -- would make it official. As it stands, Victor could cut and run.

I could ask whether he would dare to do so

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Victor is the only man who could run from Thandi, if he wanted to.

Because of his expertise in hiding in plain sight, obtained from being a spy?

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Thandi is the only woman whom Victor would not dare run from.

Ah, that would be from fear of the Great Kaja in seek mode?

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:But a bona fide 'union' -- as in marriage -- would make it official. As it stands, Victor could cut and run.

I could ask whether he would dare to do so, but instead I will point to your initial post that suggested the Queen (or Empress) and her consort could divorce due to infidelity to emphasize that marriage does not by itself make a relationship stronger. Married people can and do "cut and run". Successfully married people work on their relationship just as much as before the wedding. The main advantages of marriage are certain legal benefits.

Marriage gives the illusion of being more permanent to those on the outside looking in. Friends, families, banks, political offices, hotels, fathers.

This might be unpopular, but part of me has always felt sorry for Elaine Komondorski. She was a slave who wanted nothing more than to get out. She is only human. We might not know anything about her worst personal demons and what she personally endured as a slave.

At any rate, anyone can have a moment of weakness and make the wrong decision. But isn't self-preservation mankind's most inherent trait (actually of any living thing), and stronger than anything else?! Who is to say that her particular gene mods didn't kick self-preservation in high gear; even if not, still.

Anyway, Elaine is hiding from the Ballroom. If they find her, will they escort her back to Jeremy for a long discussion or kill her on the spot? If Jeremy finds her or gets to talk to her, he may understand and forgive her, and they could actually fall in love. I got a very special arrow awaiting the time they get close.

Do we have a case of two escaped slaves falling in love with each other? If we don't, the author better rectify that situation asap, before my warped brain starts thinking something along the lines of 'how can the galaxy be expected to see a slave as a normal person if they don't see each other as a normal person who is good enough to fall in love with.'

At any rate, we can all sit here and say what we would have done if we were in Elaine Komondorski's shoes. But if we had been a slave all of our life, and suddenly an opportunity to escape falls in our lap, can all of us really say that we would pass it up even if we have to sell out a cargo load full of slaves?

In any case, should we give the woman a break? After all, she was a victim who suffered in the bed of Pavel Young. Now if I can just remember that apropos concept in crminal law.

...

Time served!!!



Fine print: Most of the books I have not read more than once. And I have had the book containing Elaine Komondorski's escape on my personal hit list. So I may be quite foggy about her dossier. Admittedly, I recall being angry as hell at her myself. Anyway, do pardon me if I offend your Cupist sensibilities. Trust me, I mean well.

cthia wrote:At any rate, we can all sit here and say what we would have done if we were in Elaine Komondorski's shoes. But if we had been a slave all of our life, and suddenly an opportunity to escape falls in our lap, can all of us really say that we would pass it up even if we have to sell out a cargo load full of slaves?

In any case, should we give the woman a break? After all, she was a victim who suffered in the bed of Pavel Young. Now if I can just remember that apropos concept in criminal law.

...

Time served!!!

What drivel (referring mainly to the chance for an Elaine and Jeremy pairing; Jeremy could not commute her sentence if he wanted, the Ballroom is not that autocratic). I will put the text in the other thread, because you actually got the essentials. Perhaps there are many people who would do what she did, but they should all suffer her ultimate fate also. She only had sex with Pavel once, then she engineered his death and married his brother, becoming Lady Georgia Young. Most of her time was served on the top of the social heap.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:At any rate, we can all sit here and say what we would have done if we were in Elaine Komondorski's shoes. But if we had been a slave all of our life, and suddenly an opportunity to escape falls in our lap, can all of us really say that we would pass it up even if we have to sell out a cargo load full of slaves?

In any case, should we give the woman a break? After all, she was a victim who suffered in the bed of Pavel Young. Now if I can just remember that apropos concept in criminal law.

...

Time served!!!

What drivel (referring mainly to the chance for an Elaine and Jeremy pairing). I will put the text in the other thread, because you actually got the essentials. Perhaps there are many people who would do what she did, but they should all suffer her ultimate fate also. She only had sex with Pavel once, then she engineered his death and married his brother, becoming Lady Georgia Young. Most of her time was served on the top of the social heap.

Thanks for the text tlb. But yeah, I did say the shipping wouldn't be popular. The particular item from the shipment of slaves wasn't popular either after what she did to escape the shipment. She was spoiled goods beforehand. LOL

But this statement by Zilwicki prevents me from being so judgemental and holier-than-thou after the initial anger from my kneejerk reaction burned itself out ...

"I've never been a slave. I don't pretend to understand what someone who has been one would be willing to do to gain her own freedom. And, by the same token, I don't pretend to stand in judgment on those who want to . . . discuss her actions with her. But I think, Elaine, that if I were her, I'd be far more concerned about the Ballroom than about anything the Star Kingdom's courts might want to discuss with her."

I really hope the Ballroom wants to discuss her actions with her. She deserves a chance to explain.

Interesting that you would downplay the repulsion of someone having sex with the likes of Pavel Young even once. I doubt that any woman would find it particularly nice to lay under scum.

But I recall textev saying that he liked doing depraving and despicable things to his women, and did them to Georgia as well. His requests were sickening. I also recall her stating that his brother was no picnic either, being a Young. Not as bad as Pavel, but still a Youngin at heart.

Textev on the "only once"?

cthia wrote:But I recall textev saying that he liked doing depraving and despicable things to his women, and did them to Georgia as well. His requests were sickening. I also recall her stating that his brother was no picnic either, being a Young. Not as bad as Pavel, but still a Young in at heart.

Textev on the "only once"?

Field of Dishonor, chapter 19:

It had taken only one night, and the bruises that went with it, to convince her that even prison would be better than an unending sentence as Pavel Young's "lover," and she was still his chief security officer. In anyone else, that combination would have been too stupid to believe; in his case, Sakristos understood exactly how it worked, and her lips worked with the desire to spit. No one else was quite real to Pavel Young. That was especially true for women, but it applied to everyone else around him, as well. He lived in a universe of cardboard cutouts, of human-shaped things provided solely for his use. He had no sense of them as people who might resent him—or, indeed, who had any right to resent him—and he was too busy doing things to them to even consider what they might do to him if they got the chance.

Not having been a slave also means not to pretend to judge what the Ballroom would do to an ex-slave that gains freedom by selling out other slaves. I doubt that talking will be involved.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:But I recall textev saying that he liked doing depraving and despicable things to his women, and did them to Georgia as well. His requests were sickening. I also recall her stating that his brother was no picnic either, being a Young. Not as bad as Pavel, but still a Young in at heart.

Textev on the "only once"?

Field of Dishonor, chapter 19:

It had taken only one night, and the bruises that went with it, to convince her that even prison would be better than an unending sentence as Pavel Young's "lover," and she was still his chief security officer. In anyone else, that combination would have been too stupid to believe; in his case, Sakristos understood exactly how it worked, and her lips worked with the desire to spit. No one else was quite real to Pavel Young. That was especially true for women, but it applied to everyone else around him, as well. He lived in a universe of cardboard cutouts, of human-shaped things provided solely for his use. He had no sense of them as people who might resent him—or, indeed, who had any right to resent him—and he was too busy doing things to them to even consider what they might do to him if they got the chance.

Not having been a slave also means not to pretend to judge what the Ballroom would do to an ex-slave that gains freedom by selling out other slaves. I doubt that talking will be involved.

I think that would be a crying shame and a travesty of Justice to condemn and murder without giving an opportunity to defend oneself.

That is like saying a woman who is constantly beaten and abused cannot one day snap and commit murder, and is wholly responsible for her actions without leniency. She was abused by an entire organization ALL of her life. I shudder to even think of the despicable things a sex slave might be forced to do. Temporary insanity and self-preservation. She sold out the other slaves, yes, but can their lives be blamed on her? She has to live with that, and she is probably a victim of her own worst nightmares. Again I say 'time served.'

Note: It is not "Young in at heart." It is Youngin' at heart. Sort of a double entendre and a play on words. Probably your spell checker.

At any rate, it doesn't actually say that it only happened one night, but that it had only taken one night to identify what she was lying under.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:But I recall textev saying that he liked doing depraving and despicable things to his women, and did them to Georgia as well. His requests were sickening. I also recall her stating that his brother was no picnic either, being a Young. Not as bad as Pavel, but still a Young in at heart.

Textev on the "only once"?

Field of Dishonor, chapter 19:

It had taken only one night, and the bruises that went with it, to convince her that even prison would be better than an unending sentence as Pavel Young's "lover," and she was still his chief security officer. In anyone else, that combination would have been too stupid to believe; in his case, Sakristos understood exactly how it worked, and her lips worked with the desire to spit. No one else was quite real to Pavel Young. That was especially true for women, but it applied to everyone else around him, as well. He lived in a universe of cardboard cutouts, of human-shaped things provided solely for his use. He had no sense of them as people who might resent him—or, indeed, who had any right to resent him—and he was too busy doing things to them to even consider what they might do to him if they got the chance.

Not having been a slave also means not to pretend to judge what the Ballroom would do to an ex-slave that gains freedom by selling out other slaves. I doubt that talking will be involved.

Damn, it - should have scrolled down. I just found that text too in the book.

She may have been forced to play Pavel's "sick sex games" [FoD] more than once before Honor managed to challenge and kill him. But your statement is correct; she engineered his death (or at least started doing so) after "only once" (one night).