Cupid

cthia wrote:Speaking of threesomes, since Honor's marriage has already been "zoned" for threesomes, will she and Hamish ever accept another wife, or husband?

There's nothing stopping that, except the couple's wishes.

If Hamish dies, will the estate always be called White Haven?

The Earldom of White Haven will continue to exist, that much we know. How the inheritance laws apply, we don't. It's possible that in his or Honor's will, the Earldom is passed to one child and the Duchy of Harrington to another, thereby separating them again.

Can one of Grayson's Keys marry an ex pleasure slave without problems?

Why not? The Grayson Laws don't recognise slavery, so for the purposes of marriage, that's a person just like any other. Possibly a foreigner, and thus not eligible to become a Steadholder without special dispensation like Honor got, even if this person acquired Grayson citizenship. But the point is that this person would not be any different from someone from, say, the Kingdom of Meyers or from the Seraphim System, under the eyes of the Law and Church.

cthia wrote:

roseandheather wrote:
Given that Elizabeth rather casually told Eloise she'd send "a couple of dozen" treecats home with her after the wedding, I think it's safe to say that Nouveau Paris is going to be gaining at least one treecat colony. (....short story fodder?? Please be short story fodder!!)

And I also think it's fairly safe to say that the Grand Alliance won't break up any time soon, if ever - the only reason they wound up fighting each other in the first place was because of the People's Republic's rapid and forcible expansion under the DuQuesne plan. With the true Republic restored, Manticore and Haven are natural allies, given that they're both stable democracies with similar philosophies and a mutual hatred of genetic slavery. I see something very much in the way of the "special relationship" between the US and UK developing between them, similar to what Manticore already has with Grayson. (Besides, that's one benefit of prolong - Eloise Pritchart and Elizabeth Winton both have another century or two left at least, and I think that's enough time to cement an alliance. )

As for treecats, Tom, and Eloise... well, who knows what a pair of furry telepathic conspirators could cook up?

Thanks again r&h.
Seems I have my very own resident tac-witch.
So this is what it feels like Admiral Tourville?

You just keep right on massaging your 'puters!
I like it.

Another tac witch likes this as well!

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:Can one of Grayson's Keys marry an ex pleasure slave without problems?

Why not? The Grayson Laws don't recognise slavery, so for the purposes of marriage, that's a person just like any other. Possibly a foreigner, and thus not eligible to become a Steadholder without special dispensation like Honor got, even if this person acquired Grayson citizenship. But the point is that this person would not be any different from someone from, say, the Kingdom of Meyers or from the Seraphim System, under the eyes of the Law and Church.

Precedent says that such a person CAN become a Steadholder, if that woman is the only one left alive to assume the title and responsibilities.

By happenstance, and not by design. The same notion of how Honor could become Queen of Manticore over in the "Eridani Edict of the most Dismissive Kind" thread. BTW, that was a most difficult concept to explain.

The implication is that a pleasure slave can become a Steadholder. A Steadholder SHOULD BE a member of the Church. Basically (an ex-pleasure slave?) would be a member of the Church. Representing the Church. I am not making a personal or moral judgement on an ex pleasure slave, but I cannot see all of the different attitudes and factions of the Keys agreeing on it.

I am just the postman.

1. Since a pleasure slave has been genetically designed to be a pleasure slave, can they shut those tendencies off? Should they have to?

2. Since a pleasure slave can become a Steadholder, then it is possible that a person of questionable morality, who also happens to be a pleasure slave is now a Steadholder. Which could lead to a Steadholder practicing the ways of a "legal" brothel.

Just saying.

cthia wrote:1. Since a pleasure slave has been genetically designed to be a pleasure slave, can they shut those tendencies off? Should they have to?

2. Since a pleasure slave can become a Steadholder, then it is possible that a person of questionable morality, who also happens to be a pleasure slave is now a Steadholder. Which could lead to a Steadholder practicing the ways of a "legal" brothel.

Despite your imagination, there is no indication in the books that "pleasure slaves" are designed with an hyperactive libido; the only stipulation is that that they are designed for physical beauty. The surest sign of that is the extreme training measures that Manpower Incorporated uses on them.

We are introduced to Ginny Usher and Ensign Paulo d'Arezzo and neither exhibit the tendencies that you talking about. It is true that Ginny seems to have been a prostitute in the Solarian League before she met Kevin Usher, but that was for monetary and not hormonal reasons. Clearly neither has a problem with maintaining a monogamous relationship.

Their position as a slave has NOTHING to do with their morality, since it clearly was not a choice that they were permitted to make.

cthia wrote:Precedent says that such a person CAN become a Steadholder, if that woman is the only one left alive to assume the title and responsibilities.

By happenstance, and not by design. The same notion of how Honor could become Queen of Manticore over in the "Eridani Edict of the most Dismissive Kind" thread. BTW, that was a most difficult concept to explain.

The implication is that a pleasure slave can become a Steadholder. A Steadholder SHOULD BE a member of the Church. Basically (an ex-pleasure slave?) would be a member of the Church. Representing the Church. I am not making a personal or moral judgement on an ex pleasure slave, but I cannot see all of the different attitudes and factions of the Keys agreeing on it.

I talked about becoming a Steadholder only to refer to some right that the Constitution of Grayson may reserve to native-born citizens, not naturalised ones. This happens all the time in the constitutions (or equivalent) of our world. Otherwise, Pres. Schwarzenegger for the US?

All other rights should be afforded to someone who was a slave, whether for mining, hard labour, or pleasure, because the Constitution doesn't recognise their previous state as valid. They're simply "person not born here."

BTW, treecats are People, so could a treecat become Steadholder?

1. Since a pleasure slave has been genetically designed to be a pleasure slave, can they shut those tendencies off? Should they have to?

I don't know if they have such tendencies and, if they do, whether they can shut them down. Ginny Usher appeared to delight in making Victor Cachat embarrassed, but seemed to have everything under control. So evidence says that they either don't have it or can control it.

Whether they should have to, no. Their life is theirs. That may have consequences because of how their peers in the Grayson society view them, and they may get an attained or excommunicated by the Church because of it, but it would have been their choice.

2. Since a pleasure slave can become a Steadholder, then it is possible that a person of questionable morality, who also happens to be a pleasure slave is now a Steadholder. Which could lead to a Steadholder practicing the ways of a "legal" brothel.

I don't see why an ex-slave of any kind is more likely to create a legal brothel than a native-born conservative Grayson male. In fact, I can give you reason why they'd be less likely, starting with the fact that having been forced to do something under chattel, they would do everything they can to avoid it the future and make sure others aren't running afoul of the problem.

And some of those conservative native-born Grayson males were too cosy with the Masadans, who used to keep effective harems.

roseandheather wrote:I probably won't reveal my deepest, truest hopes for romance in the upcoming books, but why not - I'll throw out a few I'm not too invested in.

Michael Oversteegen ----> Michelle Henke

Lester Tourville ----> Andrea Jaruwalski

Jacob Zavala ----> Naomi Kaplan

Oliver Diamato ----> Molly DeLaney

Tom Caparelli ----> Patricia Givens

Augustus Khumalo ----> Sonja Hemphill

(Do note that any and all characters named above might also be part of a pairing I desperately want to happen.)

Thought I'd break down my thoughts on these characters, and other options for them.

Hemphill/Foraker needs to happen in canon, and why did you even suggest Augustus Khumalo ----> Sonja Hemphill?

Was it to pair two CA Admirals?

Tom Caparelli ----> Patricia Givens

The only reason I'm okay with it is because they both die in the Beowulf Strike, so they at least die together. Otherwise, I'd ship Trenis/Givens as this way we get another f/f relationship, and my otp of Hemphill/Foraker started as a "Pair the two people with similar jobs" pairing (if tvtropes is right).

The rest of them, I'm not really into.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:1. Since a pleasure slave has been genetically designed to be a pleasure slave, can they shut those tendencies off? Should they have to?

2. Since a pleasure slave can become a Steadholder, then it is possible that a person of questionable morality, who also happens to be a pleasure slave is now a Steadholder. Which could lead to a Steadholder practicing the ways of a "legal" brothel.

Despite your imagination, there is no indication in the books that "pleasure slaves" are designed with an hyperactive libido; the only stipulation is that that they are designed for physical beauty. The surest sign of that is the extreme training measures that Manpower Incorporated uses on them.

There is also no text indicating that they do NOT have a hyperactive libido. In fact, I am simply giving the MAlign the benefit of the doubt. They are designed to be pleasurable and slaves. For sexual encounters to be truly pleasurable it should also be pleasurable for the slave. Besides the psychotic pervert, who wants a pleasure slave who is dryer than the Sahara Desert, and whom obviously detests the act. It would be a simple procedure to increase the pressure and associated nerve endings on her "g-spot" or many other genetic fixes. Or she really isn't a pleasure slave after all, is she? But simply a slave.

I certainly hope I am right about this one, or it is simply another cruel MAlign prank.

tlb wrote:We are introduced to Ginny Usher and Ensign Paulo d'Arezzo and neither exhibit the tendencies that you talking about. It is true that Ginny seems to have been a prostitute in the Solarian League before she met Kevin Usher, but that was for monetary and not hormonal reasons. Clearly neither has a problem with maintaining a monogamous relationship.

The author can not expose everything in a book all at once; and he may not desire to. Even if it is true. But where do you get that neither of them seem to exhibit those tendencies? I don't recall storyline going into that type of personal detail.

I think what you are referring to is the fact that even pleasure slaves have their own morals, scruples, and values. They are still human. Even if a pleasure slave has a much higher libido and enjoys sex more than normal does not mean they have to like that they were [created] this way. I currently know women whom at one point or another in their life hated the fact that they were born so beautiful and sexy.

tlb wrote:Their position as a slave has NOTHING to do with their morality, since it clearly was not a choice that they were permitted to make.

I never said or implied as much. I made it clear that it was not a moral judgement of my own. But it would be a possible response from the congregation in the church.

The postman should not be soiled by the dirty porno magazines that he delivers. It is simply a reality.


Late Edit:

PGAD in women and priapism in men is real.

Does anyone recall the 1001 Ways To Die episode where this guy's girlfriend would have massive debilitating orgasms simply by touching her arm? Or anywhere on her body? Her condition confined her to her home.

tlb wrote:Their position as a slave has NOTHING to do with their morality, since it clearly was not a choice that they were permitted to make.

cthia wrote:I never said or implied as much. I made it clear that it was not a moral judgement of my own. But it would be a possible response from the congregation in the church.

The postman should not be soiled by the dirty porno magazines that he delivers. It is simply a reality.

Note that I did NOT say that you were making such a judgement, I was reacting to anyone who would make such a judgement.

The postman is required to delivered all the mail, you will not always deliver even your own thoughts; but how do those thoughts come to you? Is it possible that you are presenting things that you think would be said?

Since I met Meghan Petersen, I would sure like to see her shipped with someone. Since I am unavailable, I think the author should give the girl a break.

cthia wrote:Since I met Meghan Petersen, I would sure like to see her shipped with someone. Since I am unavailable, I think the author should give the girl a break.

The Baroness Angrim is engaged to Jayson Stob, Commander, RMN, currently a patient undergoing regeneration treatment at Basingford Medical Center on Manticore after the destruction of his ship, HMS Cinqueda in Hypatia.