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Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine

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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by n7axw   » Thu Mar 31, 2022 9:44 am

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Joat42 wrote:When I thought it couldn't get any dumber, some nameless Russian general goes "hold my beer!"

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/un ... 022-03-28/

That seems to be one reason to withdraw troops, radiation exposure.


Add into this, some Russian troops were photographed the other day running around in pickups with light artillery mounted in the back. Not a good sign for them. It implies that they are short on the military vehicles needed for that function. More like something one would expect out of the Taliban than a professional army.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Arol   » Thu Mar 31, 2022 10:53 am

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n7axw wrote:...Add into this, some Russian troops were photographed the other day running around in pickups with light artillery mounted in the back. Not a good sign for them. It implies that they are short on the military vehicles needed for that function. More like something one would expect out of the Taliban than a professional army.

Don-

It seems that the Ukrainians aren’t the only reason that Russians are seen using stolen pickup trucks.
Rotten maintenance, as well as rampant corruption are equally responsible.
Anyone else foresee a major purge; a la Stalin, once the smoke has settled.

https://www.jpost.com/international/article-702428

https://news.yahoo.com/t-keep-russia-lo ... 23356.html
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by The E   » Fri Apr 01, 2022 5:23 am

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Arol wrote:Anyone else foresee a major purge; a la Stalin, once the smoke has settled.


What's going to happen next in Russia is going to be impossible to predict, really. I've read some convincing speculation that this adventure in Ukraine has fundamentally undermined the russian state as an entity (the TL;DR on the linked article being that by using access to russian gas and oil as a wedge, Putin has severely miscalculated his customer's willingness to put more effort into getting off of the fossil fuel train rather than pay his prices - Russia requires oil prices to be very high in order to turn a profit on its existing oil and gas extraction), so I think there's a very real chance that Russia may fall apart in the medium term.
Short term, yeah, Putin is likely to start purging. The problem with that, of course, is that he is doing so from a position of weakness rather than strength; there's definitely potential for some of the prospective victims of said purge to get organized to do some purging of their own, if you catch my drift.
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by isaac_newton   » Fri Apr 01, 2022 7:22 am

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The E wrote:
Arol wrote:Anyone else foresee a major purge; a la Stalin, once the smoke has settled.


What's going to happen next in Russia is going to be impossible to predict, really. I've read some convincing speculation that this adventure in Ukraine has fundamentally undermined the russian state as an entity (the TL;DR on the linked article being that by using access to russian gas and oil as a wedge, Putin has severely miscalculated his customer's willingness to put more effort into getting off of the fossil fuel train rather than pay his prices - Russia requires oil prices to be very high in order to turn a profit on its existing oil and gas extraction), so I think there's a very real chance that Russia may fall apart in the medium term.
SNIP.


v interesting article indeed! It all comes down to oil price!!

one suggestion, in article, was that maybe Putin deliberately did not go in with full power, in order to have a long term instabilility in Ukraine, purely in order to keep price of oil high...

another takeaway [for ROW] is the high value of moving toward clean distributed decentralised power gen systems. interesting to see who is argueing against them...
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Arol   » Fri Apr 01, 2022 2:11 pm

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I saw the same item referred to in the link on our national news .
If the statement is a piece of Ukrainian dis-information,
it begs the question why?
Maybe to avoid giving Putin a casus belli.
The alternative brings us back to the original thread header regarding “false flag”.
If the Ukrainian representative was telling the truth, the question arises:
would Putin be able to use an “attack” on Russian soil as a way of getting his fellow Autocrats in the League of Autocrats (aka. the CSTO) of the fence they’ve been sitting on, and send something its no secret he short of...varm bodies?

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/t ... fuel-depot
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Joat42   » Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:04 pm

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Arol wrote:I saw the same item referred to in the link on our national news .
If the statement is a piece of Ukrainian dis-information,
it begs the question why?
Maybe to avoid giving Putin a casus belli.
The alternative brings us back to the original thread header regarding “false flag”.
If the Ukrainian representative was telling the truth, the question arises:
would Putin be able to use an “attack” on Russian soil as a way of getting his fellow Autocrats in the League of Autocrats (aka. the CSTO) of the fence they’ve been sitting on, and send something its no secret he short of...varm bodies?

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/t ... fuel-depot

There is no doubt there's a lot of disinformation being produced, but I would take the word of an Ukrainian before anything a Russian representative said even if the Ukrainian's statement said pigs can fly.

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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Arol   » Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:11 pm

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Joat42 wrote:
Arol wrote:I saw the same item referred to in the link on our national news .
If the statement is a piece of Ukrainian dis-information,
it begs the question why?
Maybe to avoid giving Putin a casus belli.
The alternative brings us back to the original thread header regarding “false flag”.
If the Ukrainian representative was telling the truth, the question arises:
would Putin be able to use an “attack” on Russian soil as a way of getting his fellow Autocrats in the League of Autocrats (aka. the CSTO) of the fence they’ve been sitting on, and send something its no secret he short of...varm bodies?

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/t ... fuel-depot

There is no doubt there's a lot of disinformation being produced, but I would take the word of an Ukrainian before anything a Russian representative said even if the Ukrainian's statement said pigs can fly.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by n7axw   » Fri Apr 01, 2022 4:42 pm

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Arol wrote:I saw the same item referred to in the link on our national news .
If the statement is a piece of Ukrainian dis-information,
it begs the question why?
Maybe to avoid giving Putin a casus belli.
The alternative brings us back to the original thread header regarding “false flag”.
If the Ukrainian representative was telling the truth, the question arises:
would Putin be able to use an “attack” on Russian soil as a way of getting his fellow Autocrats in the League of Autocrats (aka. the CSTO) of the fence they’ve been sitting on, and send something its no secret he short of...varm bodies?

https://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/t ... fuel-depot


Just thinking about this, Putin and his cronies are paying the price for failing to diversify Russia's investment in sources of energy other than oil. For that matter the folks controlling Russia's wealth don't seem to have invested much in Russia at all. Not only have they bled Russia of its resources, they have failed to reinvest in modernizing its industries leaving Russia with nothing but oil to export as its GDP continues to shrink. In fact as we have learned, Russia's armed forces haven't been modernized either.

As it turns out, until Russia manages to deal with all of this including getting off fossil fuels, she is going to be as crabby as a bear with a sore tooth, extremely dangerous not only for Europe, but for the whole world esp considering those nukes she is sitting on.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Arol   » Sun Apr 03, 2022 4:14 pm

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https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/20 ... nd-vpx.cnn

Bucha; like Srebrenica, seems to be headed for infamy, as sites of inhumanity committed under the guise of war.
Streets filled with bodies; some with their hand bound behind them, some with bullet holes in the back of the head. Some showing signs of torture. Rapports of mass graves filled with hundreds of bodies; then to round of this litany of horror: the finding of a torture chamber!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... ia-ukraine

That the story is creating quite a stir on some of the war-tracking sites, is an understatement. The atrocity itself of course, but also its sheer stupidity!
With modern communications the story is without doubt already country wide.
The Ukrainians are going to go nuts!!!
That’s where the stupidity comes in! Giving an enemy that’s already proving tougher and more resilient then expected, a reason to fight like madmen! Knowing that what happened in Bucha could happen anywhere in the Ukraine, and to their near and dear!
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Re: Russian “False-Flag” operations in the Ukraine
Post by Daryl   » Sun Apr 03, 2022 10:34 pm

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Here in Australia it was reported that some Russian government media was showing this as happening in Russia by the Ukrainian invaders.
No confirmation as yet, but obscene chutzpah if they are. The media here was at pains to point out that it was various international media outfits who were reporting the real atrocity.

Arol wrote:https://edition.cnn.com/videos/world/2022/04/03/bucha-ukraine-civilians-killed-kira-rudik-ndwknd-vpx.cnn

Bucha; like Srebrenica, seems to be headed for infamy, as sites of inhumanity committed under the guise of war.
Streets filled with bodies; some with their hand bound behind them, some with bullet holes in the back of the head. Some showing signs of torture. Rapports of mass graves filled with hundreds of bodies; then to round of this litany of horror: the finding of a torture chamber!

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... ia-ukraine

That the story is creating quite a stir on some of the war-tracking sites, is an understatement. The atrocity itself of course, but also its sheer stupidity!
With modern communications the story is without doubt already country wide.
The Ukrainians are going to go nuts!!!
That’s where the stupidity comes in! Giving an enemy that’s already proving tougher and more resilient then expected, a reason to fight like madmen! Knowing that what happened in Bucha could happen anywhere in the Ukraine, and to their near and dear!
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