Hypersonic missile

Daryl wrote:News always needs to be vetted cynically, but I saw what looked like a "Golden BB" event.
A Ukrainian APC took out a Russian MBT with its 30mm. Rapid use of automated fire, followed by smoke and explosions.

If we're talking about the same video (I think it's this one? content warning, btw, in the latter half of that clip you will see a russian APC and dismounted infantry being engaged and, in all likelihood, killed), then that's not what's happening. We can see the ukrainian APC engaging an MBT with its 30mm, but all we see is impacts; while that will have done unfortunate things to the tank's paint and anything mounted externally, I don't think there's sufficient evidence to conclude that that tank got taken out by it.
Now, the APC they're engaging after that is definitely toast. As are the people hiding behind it.

Joat42 wrote:

Arol wrote:Maybe the simple answer is that they are running low conventional versions of their Precision Guided Missiles in the immediate battle area. It’s no big secret that their logistics is abysmal.
So using a state-of-the-art hypersonic version is a way of keeping up the impetus of their attack.

I don't think so, I think they are using Ukraine as a testbed for new weapons - just like they did in Syria.

Consider that this was just one strike of many.

Arol wrote:Makes sense!
Take it a step further, testbed yes, but also a chance to show off their latest toys both to potential customers, and potential and present enemies.

Without a doubt they used the opportunity to showcase their hypersonic missile, and rub dirt in the enemy's face who do not have the technology. It is evident in the fact that as a result the US made claims of testing another version of ours, after several failed attempts.

Russia's media gains may have been lost in the horrible images of their military equipment breaking down for lack of maintenance. Rotted tires exploding on military trucks that are part of a 60km stalled convoy.

cthia wrote:Without a doubt they used the opportunity to showcase their hypersonic missile, and rub dirt in the enemy's face who do not have the technology.

If you want to see this sort of thing done properly though, look no further than Ukraine's use of TB-2 drones.

Hypersonic missiles are big, scary, and ineffective. TB-2s, meanwhile, turn a big scary army into scrap metal.

The E wrote:

cthia wrote:Without a doubt they used the opportunity to showcase their hypersonic missile, and rub dirt in the enemy's face who do not have the technology.

If you want to see this sort of thing done properly though, look no further than Ukraine's use of TB-2 drones.

Hypersonic missiles are big, scary, and ineffective. TB-2s, meanwhile, turn a big scary army into scrap metal.

interesting read.

It seems that Theodens saying [LOTR] 'Oft evil will, shall evil mar' is [fortunately] proving very true.

It seems that a lot of the russian army's poor performance has been down to high level corruption - all those massive defence expenditures - how much has gone into fat back pockets, palaces and super yachts rather then working kit?

It also seems that the war games in the past have not been properly critical - just polishing up to what the top man wanted to see, rather then reporting on the truth of the kit, readiness, etc. [Solarians in the making?]

If the hypersonic missile can somehow be used to target aircraft carriers, game over. That would truly upset the balance of power. Russia would no longer have to fret not having any aircraft carriers.

Any speculation what the symbol Z means that is found on Russian vehicles?

cthia wrote:...Any speculation what the symbol Z means that is found on Russian vehicles?

I’ve wondered the same, especially since the letter Z doesn’t appear in the Cyrillic alphabet.
So maybe it was simply chosen because it’s fairly discernable and identifiable to prevent friendly fire situation. Especially since the Russians and Ukrainians share much of the same military equipment.
That it was co-opted by Russian propagandists to symbolize “victory” can be written off to the Law of Unintended Consequence.
Even after the current conflict ends, wouldn’t be surprised to see it used by to signify a political party.
Goodwin’s Law prevents me from giving an example.

cthia wrote:If the hypersonic missile can somehow be used to target aircraft carriers, game over. That would truly upset the balance of power. Russia would no longer have to fret not having any aircraft carriers.

Yes, game over.

Sure.

Just like the previous time that it was game over for aircraft carriers when the USSR rolled out the SS-N-19/P-700 Granit missile in the 1970s.
Their followup to that missile, the SS-N-33/3M22 Zircon, has been in development for.... about 30 years at this point. It's getting close to being released for operational use, if russian reports are to be believed, which ahem lol. lmao. It's not happening anytime soon.

Real talk, russia doesn't fret about its lack of aircraft carriers. They don't care. The russian military, fundamentally, does not care. Russian strategic doctrine under Putin does not care about aircraft carriers.
Russia's strategic interests, for the moment, are not helped by aircraft carriers. Neither are they, fundamentally, hindered by enemy aircraft carriers. They're looking to retake the former USSR, not project power across the world (to the extent that they do, that's what ICBMs are for).

Any speculation what the symbol Z means that is found on Russian vehicles?

The russian army is using four distinct markers:
* Z for the forces attacking Kherson, Mykolaiv and Mariupol, deployed from Crimea oblast.
* Z in a square for the forces attacking Kharkiv, deployed from Belgorod.
* O, attacking Chernihiv.
* V, attacking North-West Kyiv

These markers are necessary to distinguish russian from ukrainian equipment, given that they're all using the same vehicles.

through memetic mutation, the "Z" has been adopted as the symbol of choice for pro-russian propaganda.

cthia wrote: - SNIP

Any speculation what the symbol Z means that is found on Russian vehicles?

weeeeeel - there was that film 'World War Z' - with all those fast moving creatures

so Zombie sprang to my mind...


but I see that The E has given us the true word above!

isaac_newton wrote:

cthia wrote: - SNIP

Any speculation what the symbol Z means that is found on Russian vehicles?

weeeeeel - there was that film 'World War Z' - with all those fast moving creatures

so Zombie sprang to my mind...


but I see that The E has given us the true word above!

It can't be fast moving creatures. They are moving slower than a tank stuck in mud. There was some speculation that it was the initial of their enemy, President Zelenskyy. Which, if true, is rather pointed and ominous. Is there torture in store for him?

Now I have questions about all of the symbols used.

One thing to consider regarding russian Wunderwaffen: They do not actually, meaningfully exist.

Russia, it has to be said, is fundamentally too screwed up to actually run advanced weapons development. Sure, they have shiny projects like the Su-57 and the T-14 that they like to parade around, but these are not actually available in any meaningful number.
Why? Because Russia is a kleptocracy. It is fundamentally built on extraction industries, and not much else. Within the russian state, the center of power is concentrated in a balance between the security services and the people who managed to grab pieces of the soviet union when it fell apart. Neither of these have any interest whatsoever in cultivating the sort of engineering culture that sits at the heart of the western, or for that matter, chinese, military-industrial complexes.
As an example, consider the following case study:
This is an AHT 4135F. It's a russian-designed, russian produced piece of kit. It was created in response to an order from Putin to reduce reliance on imported gear.
This is a czech Zetor Forterra 135. A keen observer might notice some similarities between the two.
Why? Because what the russian company, which spent 2 years building a factory and designing the 4135F, actually did was to buy Forterra 135s in kit form from the czechs.
When this came out, it was a huge scandal, of course. The CEO of the company which so heinously scammed everyone got arrested, everything good, the governor in whose area this happened was cleared of wrongdoing and continued the big tractor project, soon presenting this model to the public, which is very definitely a homegrown russian-made tractor, yes sir.
This picture, showing said governor shaking hands with representatives of the Zetor Tractor Company in Brno, is purely coincidental I am sure.
You might ask yourself what this person is doing now. Why, after her stint as governor of Vladimir region, she got a new job - Auditor of the Accounts Chamber of the Russian Federation, where she'll be checking the transparency of other government entities and make sure they're using government funds responsibly.

Now, what this story (which is just one of many such attempts to "reduce reliance on imported tech") shows is that it is easier (and, in some ways, more respectable) to blatantly cheat in russia than trying to build the tech base in earnest.
The people in power in Russia do not value the sort of "creative destruction" that an active technology sector requires in order to work. Russia absolutely has world-class scientists and engineers, but they aren't valued in Russia.
The immediate consequence of this being that anything even marginally complex requires western hardware and expertise in order to work. It's absolutely ridiculous, but that is what happens when the top tier of a society is made up of what are, essentially, mafioso who do not care how something is done as long as they get their cut.

Bottom line: Russian superweapons aren't a thing to worry about. They're not a factor.
If you absolutely want to worry about super missiles coming to kill the carriers, well.... look more towards the chinese efforts in this area. They, after all, do see US carrier task groups as actual threats.