She shot him with her finger

cthia wrote:Since this thread is in a lull, does textev mention what calibre of bullet is in Honor's finger? Women have slender fingers: dunno about Sphixians. But a .22 calibre bullet isn't the calibre of bullet that I imagine Honor has.

I don't know if it was ever mentioned, but a Manty M7 pistol (military spec) used a 3x24mm dart. There is a Civie version of the same gun using the same round, so the round is probably considerably smaller than the 5.56mm .22.

before you ask - the Manty rifle round was 4x37mm

Theemile wrote:

cthia wrote:Since this thread is in a lull, does textev mention what calibre of bullet is in Honor's finger? Women have slender fingers: dunno about Sphixians. But a .22 calibre bullet isn't the calibre of bullet that I imagine Honor has.

I don't know if it was ever mentioned, but a Manty M7 pistol (military spec) used a 3x24mm dart. There is a Civie version of the same gun using the same round, so the round is probably considerably smaller than the 5.56mm .22.

before you ask - the Manty rifle round was 4x37mm

Thanks for that info. To be concise, I think all of the hardware is contained in the very tip of her finger, which makes imagining it even more difficult for me.

At any rate, and in line with the thread, it makes you wonder how many other people, civilian or military, who do not regenerate are carrying that type of concealed weapons.

I imagine Harkness has hands big enough to hide a tribarrel, if he ever wanted to. LOL

cthia wrote:

Theemile wrote:
I don't know if it was ever mentioned, but a Manty M7 pistol (military spec) used a 3x24mm dart. There is a Civie version of the same gun using the same round, so the round is probably considerably smaller than the 5.56mm .22.

before you ask - the Manty rifle round was 4x37mm

Thanks for that info. To be concise, I think all of the hardware is contained in the very tip of her finger, which makes imagining it even more difficult for me.

At any rate, and in line with the thread, it makes you wonder how many other people, civilian or military, who do not regenerate are carrying that type of concealed weapons.

I imagine Harkness has hands big enough to hide a tribarrel, if he ever wanted to. LOL

I doubt it, but the average man could probably conceal a carbine in their forearm, firing through their palm, with a extra opening flap for a 2nd, removable mag.

cthia wrote:

Theemile wrote:
I don't know if it was ever mentioned, but a Manty M7 pistol (military spec) used a 3x24mm dart. There is a Civie version of the same gun using the same round, so the round is probably considerably smaller than the 5.56mm .22.

before you ask - the Manty rifle round was 4x37mm

Thanks for that info. To be concise, I think all of the hardware is contained in the very tip of her finger, which makes imagining it even more difficult for me.

At any rate, and in line with the thread, it makes you wonder how many other people, civilian or military, who do not regenerate are carrying that type of concealed weapons.

I imagine Harkness has hands big enough to hide a tribarrel, if he ever wanted to. LOL

Theemile wrote:I doubt it, but the average man could probably conceal a carbine in their forearm, firing through their palm, with a extra opening flap for a 2nd, removable mag.

I would imagine that that configuration would be subject to the same problems that made Honor's installation only possible in the tip of her finger. A gun cannot shoot around corners or bends in the barrel or finger.

I would imagine that a weapon installed in the forearm could theoretically fire out of the bottom of the palm, if the hand is flexed back before firing.

Originally I wondered how accurate Honor's finger could be without a barrel of some length to help stabilize the bullet. I used to think the entire finger should house the barrel, until I realized the bends (joints) of the fingers would be dangerous to Honor, by possibly exploding.

cthia wrote:

Theemile wrote:I doubt it, but the average man could probably conceal a carbine in their forearm, firing through their palm, with a extra opening flap for a 2nd, removable mag.

I would imagine that that configuration would be subject to the same problems that made Honor's installation only possible in the tip of her finger. A gun cannot shoot around corners or bends in the barrel or finger.

I would imagine that a weapon installed in the forearm could theoretically fire out of the bottom of the palm, if the hand is flexed back before firing.

Originally I wondered how accurate Honor's finger could be without a barrel of some length to help stabilize the bullet. I used to think the entire finger should house the barrel, until I realized the bends (joints) of the fingers would be dangerous to Honor, by possibly exploding.

Yes, I meant for the forearm firing port to be in a flexed palm.

No powder means no need for a strong, closed barrel and breech - with emag or grav launchers, you can have a segmented accelerator path, as long as it's aligned properly (you just lose top end capability when you do so.)

cthia wrote:I would imagine that that configuration would be subject to the same problems that made Honor's installation only possible in the tip of her finger. A gun cannot shoot around corners or bends in the barrel or finger.

I would imagine that a weapon installed in the forearm could theoretically fire out of the bottom of the palm, if the hand is flexed back before firing.

Originally I wondered how accurate Honor's finger could be without a barrel of some length to help stabilize the bullet. I used to think the entire finger should house the barrel, until I realized the bends (joints) of the fingers would be dangerous to Honor, by possibly exploding.

It's not actually in just the tip of her finger. It fires through the tip of her index finger, yes, but the 30 round magazine is back in her forearm and putting her artificial arm into what I guess you'd call 'pulser mode' locks things into position to align everything for firing.

Admittedly when War of Honor describes it it only talks about locking the left index finger (as the barrel), and the hand's other fingers as if grasping an invisible pulser; but logically it would also have to align things so the darts can come from the magazine, through the wrist, and into the finger. I suppose that could be a slow feed system with the barrel being entirely contained within the left index finger. But given that the whole arm is artificial I don't see any reason to accept such a short barrel and long feed system. It should be easy enough to align things well enough for the barrel to snap together all the way back through the wrist to the magazine. (And there'd be more room for the grav drivers in the relatively more roomy forearm and palm of the hand; so it might actually be easier to install a longer barreled version with the barrel extension into the finger being unpowered -- but that's just speculation)

After all the barrel doesn't need to hold the pressure of a powder charge. The only gas pressure would be from displaced atmosphere and shock waves as the dart's being accelerated down the barrel by the pulser's miniature grav drivers. That would make a multi-part barrel snapping into alignment as you prepare to fire much more feasible.

(Hmm, I wonder if you could use clever grav generators to hold a pulser's barrel at near vacuum so you didn't get a shock wave or significant pressure build-up within the barrel itself)

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:I would imagine that that configuration would be subject to the same problems that made Honor's installation only possible in the tip of her finger. A gun cannot shoot around corners or bends in the barrel or finger.

I would imagine that a weapon installed in the forearm could theoretically fire out of the bottom of the palm, if the hand is flexed back before firing.

Originally I wondered how accurate Honor's finger could be without a barrel of some length to help stabilize the bullet. I used to think the entire finger should house the barrel, until I realized the bends (joints) of the fingers would be dangerous to Honor, by possibly exploding.

It's not actually in just the tip of her finger. It fires through the tip of her index finger, yes, but the 30 round magazine is back in her forearm and putting her artificial arm into what I guess you'd call 'pulser mode' locks things into position to align everything for firing.

Admittedly when War of Honor describes it it only talks about locking the left index finger (as the barrel), and the hand's other fingers as if grasping an invisible pulser; but logically it would also have to align things so the darts can come from the magazine, through the wrist, and into the finger. I suppose that could be a slow feed system with the barrel being entirely contained within the left index finger. But given that the whole arm is artificial I don't see any reason to accept such a short barrel and long feed system. It should be easy enough to align things well enough for the barrel to snap together all the way back through the wrist to the magazine. (And there'd be more room for the grav drivers in the relatively more roomy forearm and palm of the hand; so it might actually be easier to install a longer barreled version with the barrel extension into the finger being unpowered -- but that's just speculation)

After all the barrel doesn't need to hold the pressure of a powder charge. The only gas pressure would be from displaced atmosphere and shock waves as the dart's being accelerated down the barrel by the pulser's miniature grav drivers. That would make a multi-part barrel snapping into alignment as you prepare to fire much more feasible.

(Hmm, I wonder if you could use clever grav generators to hold a pulser's barrel at near vacuum so you didn't get a shock wave or significant pressure build-up within the barrel itself)

It is brilliant to use a system that automatically straightens the finger before firing. I thought of that, but dismissed it because the system would have to perform very quickly. The barrel would have to lock into place before Honor is prepared to fire; which would be very quickly. And a mechanism with moving parts quickly slotting into place could throw Honor's aim off. But now I am thinking that since the arm is mechanical, that it can be stabilized as well. As a matter of fact, the finger can be controlled to put a round right where the crosshairs of Honor's eye lies. A very accurate system.

Thanks for the info Jonathan. I wasn't aware Honor had a thirty shot mag. Is that new? I recall textev giving her only one shot that disabled the finger. I suppose I digested that wrongly. Since I was obviously wrong about the absence of a barrel in the finger.

cthia wrote:As a matter of fact, the finger can be controlled to put a round right where the crosshairs of Honor's eye lies. A very accurate system.

Thanks for the info Jonathan. I wasn't aware Honor had a thirty shot mag. Is that new? I recall textev giving her only one shot that disabled the finger. I suppose I digested that wrongly. Since I was obviously wrong about the absence of a barrel in the finger.

If I remember correctly, there is a sighting system in her arm that takes over from her eye when firing her finger.

The magazine was shown in War of Honor when Honor visited Chien-lu Anderman, Herzog von Rabenstrange, at the IAN Sachsen Naval Station in an effort to defuse tensions between the Star Kingdom and the Empire; as well as to provide information of a Havenite naval presence in Silesian space. Since no visitor was allowing to be armed in his presence, by order of the Emperor after the Malign assassination attempt, she removed the magazine in front of a Andermani aide to display her good intentions.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:As a matter of fact, the finger can be controlled to put a round right where the crosshairs of Honor's eye lies. A very accurate system.

Thanks for the info Jonathan. I wasn't aware Honor had a thirty shot mag. Is that new? I recall textev giving her only one shot that disabled the finger. I suppose I digested that wrongly. Since I was obviously wrong about the absence of a barrel in the finger.

If I remember correctly, there is a sighting system in her arm that takes over from her eye when firing her finger.

The magazine was shown in War of Honor when Honor visited Chien-lu Anderman, Herzog von Rabenstrange, at the IAN Sachsen Naval Station in an effort to defuse tensions between the Star Kingdom and the Empire; as well as to provide information of a Havenite naval presence in Silesian space. Since no visitor was allowing to be armed in his presence, by order of the Emperor after the Malign assassination attempt, she removed the magazine in front of a Andermani aide to display her good intentions.

Correct. We learn about that sighting system in book 11, Ashes of Victory, "concealed camera in the cuticle of the finger" "links directly to her artificial eye" "projects a window with a crosshair"

But the original reveal that she's got a (basically undetectable) holdout pulser built into her hand/arm was that scene you mentioned in book 10 (War of Honor); and yes and the 30 round magazine was part of that initial reveal.

What the text does say is that "I'm afraid I'd have to have the tip of the finger rebuilt if I ever used it". But I took that to mean that the tip of the finger is the disguise hiding the muzzle of the barrel and that cover is destroyed when firing -- which shouldn't disable the gun; merely leave it less concealed. So I think that she'd need to rebuild the tip to hide the muzzle again - but in the meantime the pulser would still work just fine.

(We first learn she's getting an artificial arm in book 9, Ashes of Victory, but we're just given a vague mentions of "enhanced features" and that Honor's dad suggested a couple enhancements she hadn't though of -- but zero hints about the pulser)

cthia wrote:Since this thread is in a lull, does textev mention what calibre of bullet is in Honor's finger? Women have slender fingers: dunno about Sphixians. But a .22 calibre bullet isn't the calibre of bullet that I imagine Honor has.

She's got a pulsar, not a chemical gun. Pulsar rounds are small and long.