TEIF errors?

Greetings all. I enjoyed TEIF very much over all but... some things concerning galton seem like they were missed in the proofreading?

The primary fortress at galton-48 million tons of heavily armored and armed mass so equivalent to about 5-6 SDs, yet over a million Inhabitants?

The first Hasta attack against the GF- surely the MA would be aware of the particle bow shock at high c reducing their stealth and would therefore approach less speedily so as to remain undetected as long as possible. Also, would they not made that first attack as large and decisive as possible? And those graser armed Hastas didn't seem very effective.

The "after surrender" attack- less than 1000 surviving standard cataphracts took out 22 capital ships, half of them SDs? Those missiles were orders of magnitude better than the Graser heads, or any other missile.

Honor mentioning the "graser armed missiles or drones" used at Manticore seems like an attempt by the author to recon GA knowledge of the spider drive out of that attack.

No use by Galton of "block ships" or wedge drones for shielding, even though they had the industry to build probably tens of thousands?

To me, the whole Galton battle was a bit too glossed over. For an event that is supposed to be the end of the alignment. It seemed like an afterthought and rushed.

Anyways, that's my 2 cents for now.

jaydub69 wrote:The "after surrender" attack- less than 1000 surviving standard cataphracts took out 22 capital ships, half of them SDs? Those missiles were orders of magnitude better than the Graser heads, or any other missile.

The number launched was 11,000 missiles. This is about six hours after the surrender, if I read that correctly; the time needed to patch in the command circuit.

My impression was that Honor moved her force in after the surrender and so the unexpected attack came from much closer range, giving little time for counter measures. Plus the missiles came from all points ahead, so there was no way to turn to present the wedge. But that is just my impression.

The entire introduction of Galton seems like a ploy by the writers and the lack of a spider-drive there seems to be a flimsy attempt at subterfuge, that the Alliance should see through.

jaydub69 wrote:The first Hasta attack against the GF- surely the MA would be aware of the particle bow shock at high c reducing their stealth and would therefore approach less speedily so as to remain undetected as long as possible. Also, would they not made that first attack as large and decisive as possible? And those graser armed Hastas didn't seem very effective.

They probably knew about the bow shock effect; that's why they didn't make their first salvo any bigger... or faster.

The problem with a less speedy approach is how much longer it takes. To cross a recon screen with a radius of one light minute, where presumed detection becomes absolute, takes about three minutes at the .4c they were doing. At .2c, that jumps to about seven minutes and at .1c it's nearly fourteen minutes.

A SD(P) can hyper out in four and a half minutes.

To me, the whole Galton battle was a bit too glossed over. For an event that is supposed to be the end of the alignment. It seemed like an afterthought and rushed.

But as readers we already know it isn't the end of the Alignment, right? From the GA's perspective, they fought a week-long siege and faced some of the Alignment's dirtiest tricks.

The Galton deception won't stand up to a proper investigation, but those takes time. For a while, the GA should indeed think the Alignment is ended. How long until they start to suspect otherwise? Between a year to five years, I'd say.

One of the lessons for the GA to take away from Galton is that the Alignment can't be trusted. That post-surrender attack is just plain blatant deceit after having said they were laying down arms. The self destruction of forts is also a bad sign. Given that the mentioned population size is so massive, clearly the Alignment doesn't seem to think that any of it's military (or the apparent civilians also on-board) are worth saving in the face of a possible need to secure information and equipment designs.

The "Alamo" code name -which we don't know if the GA will learn- is a fair opening to what was done at Galton. Hold at all costs, no truce or surrender and bleed the enemy at any opportunity.

In the original campaign that included the Alamo in Texas, there was at least a hope that some relief or support could show up but it really boiled down to using the old church compound (which was not small) as a roadblock that Santa Anna had to deal with and make an example of. Given the size of the "garrison" holding the Alamo, Santa Anna could have by-passed it and left a small holding force to contain the Texans inside. Given what happens later, the time he spent (and troops lost) obliterating the force in the Alamo would have been much better closing on the Texan forces and not giving them the time to build up or choose a better position to engage from.

So Galton ends up a bloody mess and in the process -very clearly noted in the book- attempts to goad the GA commander into what would have been considered (and certainly played as such) by the Alignment's propaganda arm and lackeys in the League news services and elsewhere,

At this point (and remember that Ruth and company have uncovered the very complicated and layers demolition systems installed into the ex-Peep ships that were captured and taken into service by Torch) almost nobody who knows anything about anything to do with then Alignment is going to get out alive if they don't win whatever confrontation they get into .

Combine this with the killer nanite anti-capture and interrogation weapon, the picture is becoming clear that the only thing the Alignment will leave behind if it doesn't succeed is bodies --and the larger the pile, the better.
So, just how long till it becomes clear that there is no dealing with the Alignment, the only thing they will settle for is victory or your deaths- and they consider their own people expendable.

This is going to turn into a hunt to the death since you can't trust the Alignment,

Agreed, 11000 missiles, but less than 1000 survived to reach attack range. Less than 1000 cataphract laserheads with their lesser number of lasing rods than alliance MDMs presumably not all aimed at the 22 destroyed ships but spread over more targets.

But even if they were ALL targeted on the 22 destroyed ships that is what, 40-ish missiles per ship? Even if they miraculously had a 100% hit ratio with no misses, no hitting wedges, all down the throat shots... would that have destroyed all 22 ships? Would 40 hits take out an SD?

Also, we know the incoming missiles were targeted more broadly, honor's ship took several hits. Hers was surely one of many.....

[quote="munroburton"]

They probably knew about the bow shock effect; that's why they didn't make their first salvo any bigger... or faster.


Right, but going slower still works if you're never seen. We're told they were only detected by the bow shock and we know the MA stealth is probably even better than the alliance. So, a slower approach to a much closer before detection range and then launching missiles. After all, the alliance was able to get their drone right on top of the Galton fortress without them seeing it.

munroburton wrote:They probably knew about the bow shock effect; that's why they didn't make their first salvo any bigger... or faster.

jaydub69 wrote:Right, but going slower still works if you're never seen. We're told they were only detected by the bow shock and we know the MA stealth is probably even better than the alliance. So, a slower approach to a much closer before detection range and then launching missiles. After all, the alliance was able to get their drone right on top of the Galton fortress without them seeing it.

If we can go by the flight of recon drones that Galton sent out, containing good stealth and what I took to be their best stealth; then that of the Grand Alliance is better, because both were seen and not fired on to avoid giving out information on detection.

The fact (as you mention) that the GA drones made it to the fortresses without being seen would also support that the stealth of the GA was better.

jaydub69 wrote:Agreed, 11000 missiles, but less than 1000 survived to reach attack range. Less than 1000 cataphract laserheads with their lesser number of lasing rods than alliance MDMs presumably not all aimed at the 22 destroyed ships but spread over more targets.

But even if they were ALL targeted on the 22 destroyed ships that is what, 40-ish missiles per ship? Even if they miraculously had a 100% hit ratio with no misses, no hitting wedges, all down the throat shots... would that have destroyed all 22 ships? Would 40 hits take out an SD?

What do we actually know about these last ditch Cataphracts? We know that bigger and bigger warheads are being mounted as each new generation is developed. Is it possible that these had capital missile warheads?

From their launch, there would not have been targeting information passed to them, so likely each missile just choose the biggest and nearest target; so it would depend on the formation as to what got hit. Depending on the warhead size, it is possible that 15 missile hits could accomplish a mission kill and 25 might achieve target destruction. Again, I am not an expert; probably someone else might have a better handle.

All of these topics have been discussed before in one of the spoiler threads.

jaydub69 wrote:Agreed, 11000 missiles, but less than 1000 survived to reach attack range. Less than 1000 cataphract laserheads with their lesser number of lasing rods than alliance MDMs presumably not all aimed at the 22 destroyed ships but spread over more targets.

But even if they were ALL targeted on the 22 destroyed ships that is what, 40-ish missiles per ship? Even if they miraculously had a 100% hit ratio with no misses, no hitting wedges, all down the throat shots... would that have destroyed all 22 ships? Would 40 hits take out an SD?

The simplest explanation is that these particular Cataphracts can hit that hard. We know there have been three or four basic Cataphract "sizes" and some of those have been upgraded multiple times. They were probably the largest system-defense variants.

A messier explanation is, Adebayo specifically targeted whichever element of Grand Fleet she thought the flagship was among: perhaps two squadrons of Invictus SD(P)s, including HMS Imperator, was that entire salvo's focus. In other words, it was an attempt to assassinate Honor Harrington. Those seven BCs were screening them and four CLACs just got in the way.

jaydub69 wrote:Right, but going slower still works if you're never seen. We're told they were only detected by the bow shock and we know the MA stealth is probably even better than the alliance. So, a slower approach to a much closer before detection range and then launching missiles. After all, the alliance was able to get their drone right on top of the Galton fortress without them seeing it.

Well, the bow shock may have been what first gave that salvo away but we know the Alignment's (impeller-driven) stealth simply isn't that good. The Galton recon drones were consistently spotted by Grand Fleet, albeit not constantly. Once you push 10,000 to 100,000 objects past the kind of recon screen Grand Fleet had, I really doubt they all will remain undetected all the way into attack range.

And if they go too slowly when they cross this screen, they simply don't have time to reach any targets before FTL communications overtake them and warn the superdreadnoughts to hyper out.

When the hastas were detected in that first attack, they had been coasting ballistically for some time, no impeller to detect.

The GA themselves thought that alignment stealth was a little better than their own after observing the alignment's drones, missile pods, and the hasta attack. It was a revelation to Honor.

As to the sneak attack at the end, it was stated that the best munitions had been used up and what was left was regular cataphracts. It's also been implied that GA SDs can take 200-400 hits to destroy.

My point about the final battle being rushed was not the actual battle but the writing of said battle being rushed. For example, if that final suicide launch had been say- 110,000 missiles with 10,000 getting through to attack range. 10,000 missiles taking out 22 capital ships and damaging others seems more reasonable based on earlier battles we've seen.