Building the BSDF into the Beowulf Space Navy

You have to assume that the people running the RMN actually know what they're doing. Unlike most of us, who are doing military analyses in our spare time.

Sphinx being 14.4 light-minutes into the hyperlimit means it's vulnerable to ERM or Cataphract missiles from the hyperlimit. But if objective of the force is to lob missiles at it without actually crossing into the hyperlimit, they're going to achieve very little. The Sphinx defences are probably good enough to stop the vast majority of massed missile attacks. Probably not the unlikely case someone shows up with 300+ SDs with rolled pods ready for an Alpha launch, but I'd question the sanity of the admiral who did that and attacked Sphinx instead of going for Home Fleet. This is not a tactic for military victory, at best it'll piss the SEM off and at worst it's an EE violation.

The Sphinx defences have to hold while reinforcements come from wherever they're coming from. And don't forget that because it's so close to the hyperlimit, it can also be reinforced very quickly. Units from the Junction could make the transit about half an hour, if they forego the dogleg and pop behind the attacking force. It takes 26 minutes for a zero-zero from the hyperlimit to Sphinx on a least-time course, at 600 gravities. So if Sphinx has managed to resist initial launches, the attacking force would find itself pinned between the Sphinx defences and the reinforcements that have just arrived from hyper. And any RMN reinforcements will have at a minimum Mk16 DDMs.

Another factor to be added in are the 4-stage, system-defence, Apollo-capable missiles, which do not have to be in orbit of the planet. The Mycroft units (which also don't have to be in orbit) can direct them in on the attacking force rather easily. And just think about the two most likely places in the Manticore-A system where the Mycroft and sysdef missiles will be pre-aimed at: the hyperlimit where it intersects the least-time courses from Manticore and Sphinx. Dropping from alpha right there is probably the worst idea possible: missiles are going to be on the way before the hyper wake clears.

And back to the topic: Beowulf has Mycroft units too. And it has two planets, like Manticore-A, plus an obligation to defend its side of the Junction.

Oh, one more:

14.4 million km is actually within the sprint mode range for a 3-stage MDM. So pods in orbit of Sphinx can reach the hyperlimit in 180 seconds, whereas an ERM would take 270 seconds and a Cataphract, 225.

180 seconds is also less than the transition time for an SD or heavy collier bringing missile pods. Not that it matters, because the cycle time from having just transitioned from alpha is probably going to be around 8-10 minutes.

That means any force smaller than what Tourville brought to Manticore that dropped on the hyperlimit on the least-time course for Sphinx is DEAD. It'll be dead before its own missiles arrive, before it can find out whether it accomplished anything (assuming Cataphract missiles).

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Another factor to be added in are the 4-stage, system-defence, Apollo-capable missiles, which do not have to be in orbit of the planet. The Mycroft units (which also don't have to be in orbit) can direct them in on the attacking force rather easily. And just think about the two most likely places in the Manticore-A system where the Mycroft and sysdef missiles will be pre-aimed at: the hyperlimit where it intersects the least-time courses from Manticore and Sphinx. Dropping from alpha right there is probably the worst idea possible: missiles are going to be on the way before the hyper wake clears.

To be clear, I am not totally against defending Sphinx with locally based LAC's and system defense pods. Maybe even Mycroft if they fix the problem with a Mistletoe attack.

I am just trying to emphasis that there is a Goldilocks' point: there should not be so much defense that attacking it becomes a goal in itself; but just enough to cause the foe to wonder if there are not better options.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:You have to assume that the people running the RMN actually know what they're doing. Unlike most of us, who are doing military analyses in our spare time.

Sphinx being 14.4 light-minutes into the hyperlimit means it's vulnerable to ERM or Cataphract missiles from the hyperlimit. But if objective of the force is to lob missiles at it without actually crossing into the hyperlimit, they're going to achieve very little. The Sphinx defences are probably good enough to stop the vast majority of massed missile attacks. Probably not the unlikely case someone shows up with 300+ SDs with rolled pods ready for an Alpha launch, but I'd question the sanity of the admiral who did that and attacked Sphinx instead of going for Home Fleet. This is not a tactic for military victory, at best it'll piss the SEM off and at worst it's an EE violation.

The Sphinx defences have to hold while reinforcements come from wherever they're coming from. And don't forget that because it's so close to the hyperlimit, it can also be reinforced very quickly. Units from the Junction could make the transit about half an hour, if they forego the dogleg and pop behind the attacking force. It takes 26 minutes for a zero-zero from the hyperlimit to Sphinx on a least-time course, at 600 gravities. So if Sphinx has managed to resist initial launches, the attacking force would find itself pinned between the Sphinx defences and the reinforcements that have just arrived from hyper. And any RMN reinforcements will have at a minimum Mk16 DDMs.

Another factor to be added in are the 4-stage, system-defence, Apollo-capable missiles, which do not have to be in orbit of the planet. The Mycroft units (which also don't have to be in orbit) can direct them in on the attacking force rather easily. And just think about the two most likely places in the Manticore-A system where the Mycroft and sysdef missiles will be pre-aimed at: the hyperlimit where it intersects the least-time courses from Manticore and Sphinx. Dropping from alpha right there is probably the worst idea possible: missiles are going to be on the way before the hyper wake clears.

And back to the topic: Beowulf has Mycroft units too. And it has two planets, like Manticore-A, plus an obligation to defend its side of the Junction.

Pardon my bold.

For the most part, I don't think it has anything to do with that in this case. Rather than their present dilemma of having an enemy that they cannot see. If an enemy proves that it can quite easily break into Fort Knox (MBS), what do you do?

The rest of your post also applies to Fort Knox. In spades.

cthia wrote:For the most part, I don't think it has anything to do with that in this case. Rather than their present dilemma of having an enemy that they cannot see. If an enemy proves that it can quite easily break into Fort Knox (MBS), what do you do?

The rest of your post also applies to Fort Knox. In spades.

But how do you defend against something you can't see and don't know exists?

Let's say you're right and they can come to close orbit of the planet and then turkey-shoot the defences down. Now they own the Sphinx planetary orbit but they're also visible. Meanwhile, Home Fleet and Manticore are intact, with all wedges up, pods rolled, LACs launched. What then?

And if you could do that to Sphinx, why wouldn't you do that to Manticore, as you posited a year or two ago, and demand Mount Royal surrender?

This goes to tlb's Goldilocks comment: anyone who can do what you're suggesting wouldn't waste it on Sphinx because it's not such a big portion of the component A military defences.

Instead, it sounds like my playing strategy board games when I was young and was pigeonholed myself into a useless strategy, because I saw an opening to acquire/accummulate some asset that I had no need for. Then I wasted more resources defending it, because I had spent resources acquiring it, from those who wanted it for their reasons.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Instead, it sounds like my playing strategy board games when I was young and was pigeonholed myself into a useless strategy, because I saw an opening to acquire/accummulate some asset that I had no need for. Then I wasted more resources defending it, because I had spent resources acquiring it, from those who wanted it for their reasons.

If you can do that you can pop out on top of Manticore. Game over.

If you are not up for that you could wait until the grand opening of the new station and help add some fireworks to the the big celebration. "So I built a second one. And that one sank into the swamp."

ThinksMarkedly wrote:But how do you defend against something you can't see and don't know exists?

Well, they did know the threat existed before adopting their present strategy. The knowledge of the threat is the cause of their present strategy.

But, indeed, as I mirrored as well, "What do you do?"

My original point is that:

1. If I were Sphinx and the concern seemed to be focused on someone else's henhouse (Beowulf), I'd be pissed.

2. I'd be appalled if I thought I was being used as a distraction or as a Pawn, Bishop, Rook or Knight as part of some lameass sacrifice. I understand sacrifices as part of a plan, but not for free or unnecessarily. After all, we are talking about sacrificing people. Real flesh and blood, and not just some plastic pieces aboard a chess board.

3. And I'd be absolutely mortified if I were Sphinx and you dangled me out on a line and threw blood all over me (by placing a big fat juicy space station in my orbit) to attract the Sharks. But left my mobile defenses essentially the same. Which is why I suggested at least "castling" or something.

I suppose "castling" would be akin to Home Fleet deploying closer to Sphinx, as someone else seemed to suggest upstream. Barring the ability to do that because of other concerns ...

4. Bolster our mobile forces. We will take your leftovers. Or even your trash.

5. Especially when, by now, we're the richest system in the Galaxy. With all of our money, make it "rain" on us. Instead of the enemy making it rain orbital debris.

"Don't cry for me when I'm gone," Argentina.

cthia wrote:"Don't cry for me when I'm gone," Argentina.

Minor quibble: By taking "Argentina" out of the quotes, you make it appear this is something said by Argentina (to the world?)! Instead, this is Evita talking to the people of Argentina. I am guessing you just misfired when placing that ending quote, which explains why you ended with a comma.

PS. I do not believe Mantincore's Navy will deploy trash nor do I expect Home Fleet to be deployed at some point partway between the two. What I do expect is that Sphinx will be defended by LAC's and system defense pods; both in large numbers. Once Mycoft is hardened, then I expect it to be added. That particular mix has great defensive power without offering anything that would be of enough value by itself to justify an attack.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:"Don't cry for me when I'm gone," Argentina.

Minor quibble: By taking "Argentina" out of the quotes, you make it appear this is something said by Argentina (to the world?)! Instead, this is Evita talking to the people of Argentina. I am guessing you just misfired when placing that ending quote, which explains why you ended with a comma.

PS. I do not believe Mantincore's Navy will deploy trash nor do I expect Home Fleet to be deployed at some midpoint. What I do expect is that Sphinx will be defended by LAC's and system defense pods; both in large numbers. Once Mycoft is hardened, then I expect it to be added. That particular mix has great defensive power without offering anything that would be of enough value by itself to justify an attack.

I intentionally did that, it is not a misfire. My goal was to make it clear that I am speaking for Sphinx, and not Madonna. I am very guilty of giving forumites the benefit of the doubt that they can figure some things out. You've demonstrated I am correct. I decided to include the "Argentina" reference in case people were confused because they didn't see the movie and could Google it.

I can't speak for Sphinx, but I can live with the LACs. Perhaps I shouldn't have referred to retiring ships as trash, but I was trying to make a point there as well. Point being, we ain't asking for much. Just something. After all, this is the Manticore Binary System. We are twins.

tlb wrote:PS. I do not believe Mantincore's Navy will deploy trash nor do I expect Home Fleet to be deployed at some point partway between the two. What I do expect is that Sphinx will be defended by LAC's and system defense pods; both in large numbers. Once Mycoft is hardened, then I expect it to be added. That particular mix has great defensive power without offering anything that would be of enough value by itself to justify an attack.

More precicely I expect that Manticore and Sphinx will have very similar levels of "fixed" defenses - pod-laying forts, LAC bases, access to system defense missile pods, etc.

But the mobile Home Fleet is a unified force that defends the Manticore-A system, and while Manticore is somewhat more important than Sphinx, Home Fleet has the responsibility to defend both and will attempt that to the best of their abilities. But that require their force to be kept fairly concentrated; though I imagine that their precise deployment will vary throughout the years based on where the planets are in conjunction to each other and to the resonance zone. (Remember, there's about 1/5-1/6th of its year when Sphinx should be deep enough in the RZ that the least time course from closest emergence to Manticore would be less than the one to Sphinx -- making Manticore temporarily the more exposed planet)