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SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion

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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by RoguePhoenix   » Sat Aug 28, 2021 10:34 pm

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Okay, So I don't have time to go back and check this.

I've read a couple replies like it was a serious oversight by the alignment about the spider drive not being present in Galton

But if I recall correctly, the alignment doesn't realize that GA knows about the spider drive because it doesn't know Dr. Simoes survived (been awhile since I read through all the latest books though so I could be off on this).

With this being the case they were making the right choice (in there eyes) by not having them available in Galton.

I would see that and the evidence (or lack there of) of Zach Mcbryde never being on Galton as the two biggest clues for the GA that there is something more out there.
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Sun Aug 29, 2021 1:04 am

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RoguePhoenix wrote:Okay, So I don't have time to go back and check this.

I've read a couple replies like it was a serious oversight by the alignment about the spider drive not being present in Galton

But if I recall correctly, the alignment doesn't realize that GA knows about the spider drive because it doesn't know Dr. Simoes survived (been awhile since I read through all the latest books though so I could be off on this).

With this being the case they were making the right choice (in there eyes) by not having them available in Galton.

I would see that and the evidence (or lack there of) of Zach Mcbryde never being on Galton as the two biggest clues for the GA that there is something more out there.


I am not certain that Simoes had heard of the spider drive. But what is known by Manticore is that the grasers that ripped the space stations apart just popped out of nowhere with no warning. There were also the drones that transmitted target data immediately before the attack (I will admit that Manticore doesn't know that it was target data, but it does know there was a transmission of encrypted information from far above the orbital plane of the planets). That is why Sonja concluded that a previously unknown drive technology was involved.
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Beowulf was bad.
(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by Perseus   » Mon Sep 06, 2021 9:15 pm

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Robert_A_Woodward wrote:
RoguePhoenix wrote:Okay, So I don't have time to go back and check this.

I've read a couple replies like it was a serious oversight by the alignment about the spider drive not being present in Galton

But if I recall correctly, the alignment doesn't realize that GA knows about the spider drive because it doesn't know Dr. Simoes survived (been awhile since I read through all the latest books though so I could be off on this).

With this being the case they were making the right choice (in there eyes) by not having them available in Galton.

I would see that and the evidence (or lack there of) of Zach Mcbryde never being on Galton as the two biggest clues for the GA that there is something more out there.


I am not certain that Simoes had heard of the spider drive. But what is known by Manticore is that the grasers that ripped the space stations apart just popped out of nowhere with no warning. There were also the drones that transmitted target data immediately before the attack (I will admit that Manticore doesn't know that it was target data, but it does know there was a transmission of encrypted information from far above the orbital plane of the planets). That is why Sonja concluded that a previously unknown drive technology was involved.


The alignment does know about Simoes' survival and the GA knowing about the spider drive. Benjamin Detweiler talks about it in Chapter 20 of Shadow of Freedom:
They're talking about virus-based nanotech assassinations, the streak drive, and the spider drive, and they're naming names about something called 'the Mesan Alignment'.
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by Robert_A_Woodward   » Tue Sep 07, 2021 2:12 am

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Perseus wrote:
Robert_A_Woodward wrote:
(SNIP!)

I am not certain that Simoes had heard of the spider drive. But what is known by Manticore is that the grasers that ripped the space stations apart just popped out of nowhere with no warning. There were also the drones that transmitted target data immediately before the attack (I will admit that Manticore doesn't know that it was target data, but it does know there was a transmission of encrypted information from far above the orbital plane of the planets). That is why Sonja concluded that a previously unknown drive technology was involved.


The alignment does know about Simoes' survival and the GA knowing about the spider drive. Benjamin Detweiler talks about it in Chapter 20 of Shadow of Freedom:
They're talking about virus-based nanotech assassinations, the streak drive, and the spider drive, and they're naming names about something called 'the Mesan Alignment'.


I had forgotten that bit (and since it was also in _A Rising Thunder_ and _A Cauldron of Ghosts_, I really have no excuse). I did remember the discussion, not the mention of the spider drive.
----------------------------
Beowulf was bad.
(first sentence of Chapter VI of _Space Viking_ by H. Beam Piper)
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by Theemile   » Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:39 am

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Robert_A_Woodward wrote:
I had forgotten that bit (and since it was also in _A Rising Thunder_ and _A Cauldron of Ghosts_, I really have no excuse). I did remember the discussion, not the mention of the spider drive.


Of course, there simply is the repeated reference by Manticore to , well, anyone who will listen, really , that invisible starships attacked their system, and a reference to invisible drive systems. While not mentioning the spider drive directly - these claims by Manticore are on the nightly news everywhere.

Solarian analysists even discussed it and whether it was real not - and the Yawatta Strike was the basis of the SLN thinking it could strike a wounded Star Kingdom in Raging justice - even as they scoffed at rumors of invisible starships.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by Theemile   » Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:39 am

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Robert_A_Woodward wrote:
I had forgotten that bit (and since it was also in _A Rising Thunder_ and _A Cauldron of Ghosts_, I really have no excuse). I did remember the discussion, not the mention of the spider drive.


Of course, there simply is the repeated reference by Manticore to , well, anyone who will listen, really , that invisible starships attacked their system, and a reference to invisible drive systems. While not mentioning the spider drive directly - these claims by Manticore are on the nightly news everywhere.

Solarian analysists even discussed it and whether it was real or not - and the Yawatta Strike was the basis of the SLN thinking it could strike a wounded Star Kingdom in Raging justice - even as they scoffed at rumors of invisible starships.
Last edited by Theemile on Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
******
RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by munroburton   » Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:27 pm

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I'm dubious about the lack of spider technology in Galton too. It remains to be seen whether the GA swallows the substitution of highly stealthed freighters and graserhead MDMs, complete with what are essentially signed confessions/dying declarations.

I don't think they will. And I think the Alignment should have been smart enough to use graser torpedoes in Galton. They could have kept its local manufacturing contained to one high-security factory, which conveniently blows up when it has to.

Not doing that compromises their entire Galton sacrifice ploy.
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:29 pm

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Relax wrote:E) Now we are supposed to play make believe a much heavier volume intense Graser is NOT nuclear bomb pumped for POWER levels, but is capacitor fed(Requires vastly MORE volume yet) and has the energy levels to go through sidewalls at 500,000km for 2 seconds... By power duration alone to be equivalent to a LASERhead this is HUNDREDS of times greater power required all by itself even if it were NUCLEAR Bomb POWERED.


Bomb-pumped lasers are quite inefficient at converting the bomb's energy into laser energy. The power requirements aren't so insane if you assume a good conversion efficiency (and you have to or else the laser vaporizes itself in a lot less than 2 seconds.)

The targeting problem remains, though--at that kind of range against a randomly maneuvering target you simply can't put most of the energy on target because you can't predict where that target will be that accurately.
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:35 pm

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PeterZ wrote:I suspect O'Hanrahan was looking for a reason some other organization than hers did those horrible things the GA is blaming on her Alignment. She knows that going after the story of the GA search for Alignment will bring her in contact with treecats. They can tell if she is lying or is driven by motives inimical to those of the GA. So Audrey has a powerful incentive to NOT pick apart the BS story Phoebe gave her.


If her thoughts reached that point it's already too far.

What I'm surprised about is Honor not directly asking her about being part of the Alignment.

1) She was twitchy about it--that should have been followed up.

2) She's got very good sources. Who else knows an awful lot of secrets??

3) Basic security--if they're going to bother with treecat screening that should be a standard question.
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Re: SPOILERS: To End In Fire eARC discussion
Post by Loren Pechtel   » Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:55 pm

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Bruno Behrends wrote:I think we are on the same page here mostly. Yes, they demolished the defenses in a methodical way with minimal losses and without any mistakes that I could name. And its not like I didn't enjoy reading the battle scene. It is just that I would wish for a little bit extra that distinguishes a once-in-a-generation top commander from a merely very good one. We are talking about Honor here after all. Yeah according to logic the did the siege warfare as well as anyone could. That's the same as saying Henke or Higgins would have gotten the same result though. Nothing wrong there. But I still would love a tiny little extra bit since its Honor we are talking about and not Admiral Higgins. Like an intuition about that first attack that 'something is not right here'. It doesn't have to be anything decisive or even anything with a major implication. Just a little bit of something that goes beyond normal logic. Anyway that's just my personal little wish and nothing you have to share in any way obviously.


I disagree. They know about the Hasta--why did they sit there and let themselves be targets? And why the pecking away at the fortresses? Against something that big overkill isn't going to make much difference in the casualty count. Extra hits will just carve the outerworks (where the business end of all the weapons are) into smaller bits, the core is going to survive. You still get the same outcome without taking nearly as much Hasta fire.
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