?

Basically, it's magic.

But that's how all of these work.

cthia wrote:

kzt wrote:Because the GT is a very long duration, highly stealthy weapon. And having a 60 million degree reactor that needs to be started by a ship reator and runs out of fuel in a week probably isn't ideal for this mission.

What powers the Spider drive? Please don't say capacitors.

Jonathan_S wrote:In the graser torp? Well okay, I won't say capacitors - I'll let Daniel Detweiler say it for me

Uncompromising Honor wrote: The good news was that the spider drive’s gravitic signature was incredibly faint compared to conventional impellers, so it didn’t require as much stealthing in the first place. The bad news was that the drive itself took up a lot of space and its plasma-charged accumulators took up almost as much.

Ok, technically that discussion is about the spider drive for their Wraith recon drone; and a little later it talks about how the Silver Bullet (built around two of those Wraith's power packs) included those "deployable solar panels and a trickle charger for the plasma capacitors".

But I've every reason to assume, with the other two known unmanned spider drive platforms using plasma capacitors, that the graser torp would too. (Especially as it seems the smallest of the 3 and Daniel was bemoaning the fact that his people hasn't been able to duplicate the Manty microfusion plants)

Jonathan, you ARE aware that ALL of the Detweilers are insane don't you?

At any rate, I cringe at the memories of that fateful thread of yore still lurking about the forum somewhere about super duper trooper plasma capacitors. I don't know why they don't power entire galaxies with them. I'll be sure to keep that contained in the large pills bottle with the child proof cap on it. I ain't gonna try to swallow it again, but I'll accept it.

A sci-fi novel will spontaneously combust around a slide rule. It'll ruin your read. (I know sis, it is why you hate sci-fi.)

I have learned to maintain my very strict NO SLIDERULE policy. JUST SAY NO TO DRUGS AND SLIDE RULES while driving under the influence of sci-fi. LOL

KZT, I can believe a reactor can power a GT for days easier than capacitors, plasma or no, and still have plenty of charge left over to power hell itself for three full seconds. At any rate, I'm traumatized by visions of a GT deploying solar panels. Not to collect sunlight, but the overabundance of pixie dust.

Anyway, it is that very same discussion of the Detweilers that made me think that they would use a Manty reactor in a heartbeat if they had it. So there's no concern that it would make it less stealthy. And, it appears to me that Daniel is implying that the microfusion reactor would make their weapons smaller by replacing the huge volume occupied by - and you know they'd have to be - their very large configuration of capacitors.

The Manty reactor does not require as much space in GA missiles, therefore, it should shrink the size of the GT tremendously. IOW, by the text, it appears that 50% of the GT is one huge monster of a battery, and obviously with room for several Energizer Bunnies.

In fact, I've always accepted that passage as an omen that the MA will break the secret of the GA powerplant before their showdown with the GA. Thus making their GT much smaller, practical, and deadly. Hence, the second iteration of the GT that I spoke of upstream.

I had an epiphany in another thread. If the MA breaks the secret of the microfusion reactor, they may be able to make the GT 50% smaller right out of the box. Then remove the humongous graser. What is left would simply be a spider drive. Now make that drive easily detectable. Voila, a practical ECM. No?

cthia wrote:I had an epiphany in another thread. If the MA breaks the secret of the microfusion reactor, they may be able to make the GT 50% smaller right out of the box. Then remove the humongous graser. What is left would simply be a spider drive. Now make that drive easily detectable. Voila, a practical ECM. No?

Please recheck your phrasing, because your ask makes no sense. Why would they make the spider drive easily detectable and remove the thing that makes the torpedo interesting in the first place?

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:I had an epiphany in another thread. If the MA breaks the secret of the microfusion reactor, they may be able to make the GT 50% smaller right out of the box. Then remove the humongous graser. What is left would simply be a spider drive. Now make that drive easily detectable. Voila, a practical ECM. No?

Please recheck your phrasing, because your ask makes no sense. Why would they make the spider drive easily detectable and remove the thing that makes the torpedo interesting in the first place?

I never claimed to understand a lot of DW's world, so, it is little wonder I confuse you. I confuse me too.

Hey, I just found out in another thread that all missiles are nukes. When all along I thought that the nuclear explosion was simply used to power the "bomb pumped" lasers. shrug

At any rate, I am guessing that a spider drive detector will use the signature a drive makes to lock onto it. If a counter measure is produced that has a stronger signal, it may pull missiles away. As you would expect a stronger signal as you get closer. So, if you have an object (missile?) that makes a stronger drive signal, the GA's detector may lock onto that. Akin to the trick of putting the tracker someone slipped into your pocket onto a moving object where it leads the trackers away.

How would the GA know whether they are tracking the drive signature from a warship or that of a stripped down GT simply giving off the same drive signature.

Well, not the same drive signature, but a purposely modified detectable signature.

cthia wrote:At any rate, I am guessing that a spider drive detector will use the signature a drive makes to lock onto it. If a counter measure is produced that has a stronger signal, it may pull missiles away. As you would expect a stronger signal as you get closer. So, if you have an object (missile?) that makes a stronger drive signal, the GA's detector may lock onto that. Akin to the trick of putting the tracker someone slipped into your pocket onto a moving object where it leads the trackers away.

Ah, you're talking about decoys. Sure, decoys make sense: anything that can spoof real assets and confuse the enemy is a good tactic. Quod vide Dragon's Teeth and Lorelei. Especially the Loreleis.

So, yes, if the GA comes up with a way to detect, the MAlign can come up with a counter so as to hide better or spoof the detection. The counter to ECM is more ECM (ECCM).

But this is only as good as the last time it was used. The other side is always learning and applying lessons (if given the chance, that is; the SLN never was). No spoof is perfect, so it might be possible to detect via later analysis which signatures were fakes and which ones were real, thus updating one's algorithms to home in on that. Similarly, once the other side learns how you're seeing through their spoof, they can tweak and regain the ability.

How would the GA know whether they are tracking the drive signature from a warship or that of a stripped down GT simply giving off the same drive signature.

Well, not the same drive signature, but a purposely modified detectable signature.

After the fact. If you fire on a fake, it's not going to make a satisfying boom.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Ah, you're talking about decoys. Sure, decoys make sense: anything that can spoof real assets and confuse the enemy is a good tactic. Quod vide Dragon's Teeth and Lorelei. Especially the Loreleis.

So, yes, if the GA comes up with a way to detect, the MAlign can come up with a counter so as to hide better or spoof the detection. The counter to ECM is more ECM (ECCM).

But this is only as good as the last time it was used. The other side is always learning and applying lessons (if given the chance, that is; the SLN never was). No spoof is perfect, so it might be possible to detect via later analysis which signatures were fakes and which ones were real, thus updating one's algorithms to home in on that. Similarly, once the other side learns how you're seeing through their spoof, they can tweak and regain the ability.

How would the GA know whether they are tracking the drive signature from a warship or that of a stripped down GT simply giving off the same drive signature.

Well, not the same drive signature, but a purposely modified detectable signature.

After the fact. If you fire on a fake, it's not going to make a satisfying boom.

Hmm, I suppose I am talking about decoys, even if their dimensions aren't equal to purpose built platforms, which are the usual HV decoys, but yes.

You got a point about that satisfying boom, so I guess the warhead should be included. How is the enemy supposed to know what kind of boom an LD should make. At any rate, after each use the decoy's signature can be altered.

Question. Is the acceleration of a graser torp limited to that of an LD, since the GT has no need for compensation in the form of grav plates? Or does it?

cthia wrote:Question. Is the acceleration of a graser torp limited to that of an LD, since the GT has no need for compensation in the form of grav plates? Or does it?

The acceleration of a graser torp is limited for a different reason that an LD.

You're right that it shouldn't need grav plates; however it's implied that spider drive acceleration is a factor of the number of spider emitters that you have; which in turn is a factor of the size of the object you're trying to accelerate. Smaller objects (compared to ships) have room for few emitters and thus have low acceleration.

Mission of Honor ch. 28, when describing the graser torp, tells us "It was simply impossible to fit a spider drive capable of more than a few hundred gravities’ acceleration into something small enough to make a practical weapon."

That sounds like roughly what an LD can do at full emergency; but that seems to be a coincidence since it's different limits (crew vs drive) in play for each. An LD has up to 150 gees as normal w/ 1g felt; 210 gees as combat max w/ 4g felt; and 310 as emergency max w/ 9g felt. That's also from that same chapter

Jonathan_S wrote:

cthia wrote:Question. Is the acceleration of a graser torp limited to that of an LD, since the GT has no need for compensation in the form of grav plates? Or does it?

The acceleration of a graser torp is limited for a different reason that an LD.

You're right that it shouldn't need grav plates; however it's implied that spider drive acceleration is a factor of the number of spider emitters that you have; which in turn is a factor of the size of the object you're trying to accelerate. Smaller objects (compared to ships) have room for few emitters and thus have low acceleration.

Mission of Honor ch. 28, when describing the graser torp, tells us "It was simply impossible to fit a spider drive capable of more than a few hundred gravities’ acceleration into something small enough to make a practical weapon."

That sounds like roughly what an LD can do at full emergency; but that seems to be a coincidence since it's different limits (crew vs drive) in play for each. An LD has up to 150 gees as normal w/ 1g felt; 210 gees as combat max w/ 4g felt; and 310 as emergency max w/ 9g felt. That's also from that same chapter

That's interesting because it implies that much larger spider driven graser platforms may achieve significantly higher acceleration.

cthia wrote:

Jonathan_S wrote:The acceleration of a graser torp is limited for a different reason that an LD.

You're right that it shouldn't need grav plates; however it's implied that spider drive acceleration is a factor of the number of spider emitters that you have; which in turn is a factor of the size of the object you're trying to accelerate. Smaller objects (compared to ships) have room for few emitters and thus have low acceleration.

Mission of Honor ch. 28, when describing the graser torp, tells us "It was simply impossible to fit a spider drive capable of more than a few hundred gravities’ acceleration into something small enough to make a practical weapon."

That sounds like roughly what an LD can do at full emergency; but that seems to be a coincidence since it's different limits (crew vs drive) in play for each. An LD has up to 150 gees as normal w/ 1g felt; 210 gees as combat max w/ 4g felt; and 310 as emergency max w/ 9g felt. That's also from that same chapter

That's interesting because it implies that much larger spider driven graser platforms may achieve significantly higher acceleration.

Yep, it does seem that if you want to make an impractical weapons (to flip the quote 'round) you could make one a lot larger in order to get the spider's acceleration up.

How far up? We don't know. But the graser torp is certainly a long, long, way from the acceleration of MDMs (which are, themselves, already significantly smaller than the existing graser torp); so I don't even want to think about how much larger it'd have to be to get the ~150x improvement you'd need to go from its existing "few hundred" gees to even the low acceleration setting (46,000 gees) of an MDM.