When you're a hammer: MAlign blind spots

Theemile wrote:

munroburton wrote:
I don't think the spiderships' alpha nodes can generate an impeller wedge. They're just there to generate warshawski sails for efficient hyperspace and wormhole navigation. Probably in a three-sail configuration instead of the two we're used to.

Even the Alpha nodes is an assumption - we know the spider ships can use wormholes and hyperships, which means sails - but we do not know the mechanism used to create them. Whether the Spider drive can do it, alpha nodes are involved, or a third technology is in place, is unknown. We simply have no details other than "Why would they not be able to do that!"

If tonnage well over compensator impeller mass limit, if single ring of impeller nodes(maybe alpha), just to create a wedge and invulnerable portions for better protection with additional tonnage/protection benefits using superior strength sidewalls compared to tonnage used via spherical sidewalls, it seems probable no compensator used at all; just use existing grav plates and low acceleration penalties imposed.

Remember initially dual band impeller wedges requiring 2 impeller rings were created so opponents could not see where you are from all angles for battle line tactics and for burning missiles/contact nukes. This requirement has vanished as there is no line of battle anymore or contact nukes. Unless we are going to pretend that ships outfitted predominantly for missile engagements are going to get buddy buddy close on purpose with slow G ships which are quite visible now that their wedges/sidewalls are up...

Theemile wrote:

Joat42 wrote:All textev says that to project a Warshawski-sail you need alpha-nodes, I doubt that the MAlign also have come up with a new way to create sails which means the LD's must also have impeller nodes. The nodes are also needed for navigating in hyperspace since the spider-drive only functions in N-space.

Where has it been said the spider does not work in hyper? They work by grabbing the Alpha wall in normal space, and every hyperspace layer has a wall above it, which hypothetically, they could grab onto.

It's specifically stated that the spider ships pierce the boundary between N-space and the alpha wall. Nowhere is it mentioned that the drive can pierce one hyper band to another. Is there a possibility that rfc has bamboozled us with this textev so he later can do a "gotcha" on us gullible fools? Yes, but it also makes no sense since the whole concept with the spider-ship is to creep around virtually undetectable in N-space before attacking. Consider the limitations of the spider drive and how that translates to traveling in hyper.

Theemile wrote:We have been told that spider ship geometry is not that of a impeller vessel. Now it could simply be that they do not have a shape conducive with a speed optimized impeller vessel, and you can still slap a pair of lower powered rings on it, but we have never seen anything in print or mentioned by David that this is true. Occam's razor would lean that way, but unless you have seen something I have missed, we simply do not know if they mount a set of rings or not.

Yes, the geometry is different, the hulls are trilateral in shape to accommodate how the spider drive works (it needs 3 anchor points to be able to move), but that doesn't preclude the use of standard impellers to move fast or with ease when needed, in for example hyperspace. Also, considering the performance hit when accelerating with the spider drive, transiting between hyper-bands would take a long time in comparison.

Another factor that also plays in, why wouldn't they have impeller rings? Why gimp the ship? It wouldn't make sense at all if they lacked impellers.

Relax wrote:Remember initially dual band impeller wedges requiring 2 impeller rings were created so opponents could not see where you are from all angles for battle line tactics and for burning missiles/contact nukes. This requirement has vanished as there is no line of battle anymore or contact nukes. Unless we are going to pretend that ships outfitted predominantly for missile engagements are going to get buddy buddy close on purpose with slow G ships which are quite visible now that their wedges/sidewalls are up...

But remember that single-ring wedges are susceptible to harmonic stresses (the case of sloop HMS Phobos in Travis' era) and single-band wedges are vulnerable to the Crippler.

Could it be that Charles will make a come back to save some system's bacon with the Crippler against an LD?

Theemile wrote:If I remember te post correctly, he said "without the ability to use hyper" not impellers. I could be wrong, though.

I think it was wormholes.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:But remember that single-ring wedges are susceptible to harmonic stresses (the case of sloop HMS Phobos in Travis' era) and single-band wedges are vulnerable to the Crippler.

Could it be that Charles will make a come back to save some system's bacon with the Crippler against an LD?

You know missiles are single ring too?

Hence why David never references anything in those stories.

kzt wrote:

ThinksMarkedly wrote:But remember that single-ring wedges are susceptible to harmonic stresses (the case of sloop HMS Phobos in Travis' era) and single-band wedges are vulnerable to the Crippler.

Could it be that Charles will make a come back to save some system's bacon with the Crippler against an LD?

You know missiles are single ring too?

Hence why David never references anything in those stories.

BTW, I believe that ships need TWO sails to navigate a gravity wave. Thus, it will need two rings of alpha nodes.

kzt wrote:You know missiles are single ring too?

Hence why David never references anything in those stories.

Yes, but if a missile's single ring fails, it usually doesn't kill people. Each ring also only needs to operate for 3 minutes, so if it develops a harmonic, it may not be catastrophic until the ring shuts down.

But the missile's impeller is so overpowered that it could cause the harmonic to go catastrophic much quicker. We don't know.

Robert_A_Woodward wrote:BTW, I believe that ships need TWO sails to navigate a gravity wave. Thus, it will need two rings of alpha nodes.

I don't know about a regular grav wave, but clearly for wormholes. Since those are grav waves, it's likely. If a single sail were sufficient, the transitions we've seen would simply turn off the after ring instead of transitioning to sail too. Since they all use two sails, we must conclude two were necessary.

Three sails (with one in the middle) is unheard of. There's no way to speculate here if this is possible or not, and if so if it has a benefit. I don't think this is going to come up. As big as the LD is going to be, it's not likely to be that much longer than 9-million tonne SD(P)s.

And we're way off-topic for this thread. And it's my fault.

Joat42 wrote:

Theemile wrote:Where has it been said the spider does not work in hyper? They work by grabbing the Alpha wall in normal space, and every hyperspace layer has a wall above it, which hypothetically, they could grab onto.

Yes, the geometry is different, the hulls are trilateral in shape to accommodate how the spider drive works (it needs 3 anchor points to be able to move),

NIT: Anyone else pondered this NIT: Not that this truly matters at all... So, dumbo here has a NIT

There is no reason at all for trilateral design if you are pulling yourself along. Something does not add up. You only need one point at the nose and ability to flip/slew/rotate. Or if you truly have to "fix" yourself in space then it is not trilateral design which is required but rather 4 pts AKA a Tetrahedron. Or maybe 6 points for a fore/aft orientation of a triangle cylinder which is what he is calling trilateral design.
If a tetrahedron, only need 4 spiders to "fix" ones position so all directions can be easily moved in without flipping the ship around. Assuming each "spider" pull point can operate in a ~60 degree cone(120deg max).

Anyone else had this NIT bothering them?

ThinksMarkedly wrote:And we're way off-topic for this thread. And it's my fault.

The reason I even brought impellers on LDs up was the discussion about their being eggshells. I was thinking about the fact that the LD's must rely on active defence (missiles, CMs, ECM, evasive manoeuvres) while using the spider drive is running. So if its stealth is penetrated, such as having been hit and now venting plasma, then incoming missiles can attack from any aspect.

So going back to mentality:

a) will the MAN officers be trained in handling their ship that way?

b) will the MAN admiralty issue such orders, aside from emergency situations?

c) will the Onion controlling the MAN devise plans making use of that?

And if the answers are "yes" to all of the above, d) will they have other ships to escort the LD, forming well-rounded task forces?

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
And we're way off-topic for this thread. And it's my fault.

That is the best place to be.

As for blind spots... I whacked my head the other day and saw spots...