Founding Fathers of the modern Republic of Haven

Should Oscar Saint-Just be considered? Maybe Baron High Ridge too.

Think about it: if OSJ hadn't launched Operation Hassan and successfully killed the Duke of Cromarty, Baron High Ridge wouldn't have assumed office. And if the Cromarty Government had continued, Adm White Haven would have continued Operation Buttercup all the way to the Haven System.

At that time, Adm. Theisman was the CO of the PRH Capital Fleet, so he'd be the one to mount a defence against Eighth Fleet. He would have launched the coup against OSJ the same way he did, because no decisions would have changed yet. The Havenites hadn't yet received High Ridge's reply for a truce. So when White Haven arrived in Haven, Capital Fleet would be defending and Pritchart would be on the planet as provisional president.

Would they have surrendered?

Would the Manticore Alliance have required reparations from Haven? That could cripple the economy, like it did for Germany after WWI (Weimar Republic).

Would Theisman have been allowed to keep a sufficient fleet to fight the warlords setting up shop? Or would the MA been required to go after them? That would have chopped up the Republic of Haven before the economic recovery would have shown those members that it was a good idea to stay.

I'm pretty sure that if Buttercup had continued, the modern and vibrant Republic of Haven wouldn't be what it is today. So, should there be any statues for OSJ in Nouveau Paris?

I wouldn't consider OSJ to be a founding father of modern Haven any more than I would consider King George III to be a FF of the United States. He may have had a hand in creating the conditions that led to the foundation, but the actual result is something he had no part of and likely wouldn't have approved if consulted on the matter.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:Should Oscar Saint-Just be considered? Maybe Baron High Ridge too.

Think about it: if OSJ hadn't launched Operation Hassan and successfully killed the Duke of Cromarty, Baron High Ridge wouldn't have assumed office. And if the Cromarty Government had continued, Adm White Haven would have continued Operation Buttercup all the way to the Haven System.

At that time, Adm. Theisman was the CO of the PRH Capital Fleet, so he'd be the one to mount a defence against Eighth Fleet. He would have launched the coup against OSJ the same way he did, because no decisions would have changed yet. The Havenites hadn't yet received High Ridge's reply for a truce. So when White Haven arrived in Haven, Capital Fleet would be defending and Pritchart would be on the planet as provisional president.

Would they have surrendered?

Would the Manticore Alliance have required reparations from Haven? That could cripple the economy, like it did for Germany after WWI (Weimar Republic).

Would Theisman have been allowed to keep a sufficient fleet to fight the warlords setting up shop? Or would the MA been required to go after them? That would have chopped up the Republic of Haven before the economic recovery would have shown those members that it was a good idea to stay.

I'm pretty sure that if Buttercup had continued, the modern and vibrant Republic of Haven wouldn't be what it is today. So, should there be any statues for OSJ in Nouveau Paris?

You do realize that you are suggesting immortalizing the likes of OSJ and Baron High Ridge?

Just because their reign accidentally caused some good is besides the point. Inside both men could be found the opposite of what any nation would/should aspire to. Both were a detriment to success.

It is like saying Hitler should be immortalized because he brought Germany out of financial despair. Which, btw, a certain ex-president is claiming.

zyffyr wrote:I wouldn't consider OSJ to be a founding father of modern Haven any more than I would consider King George III to be a FF of the United States. He may have had a hand in creating the conditions that led to the foundation, but the actual result is something he had no part of and likely wouldn't have approved if consulted on the matter.

Why am I now imagining a fopish Baron High Ridge foaming at the mouth during his monologues in the hit Neuvo-Broadway musical "Theisman"?