cthia wrote:I imagine there are many different "types" of genies who are engineered for many different extremes which are encountered outside of Earth, that cover the spectrum of characteristics from detectable to nondetectable. Every genie does not look like carved granite. Honor doesn't. The Wintons don't either. Heck, IINM, Honor was once considered gangly and clumsy.
Indeed, though that was mostly a result of the delayed maturation caused by the third-gen prolong therapies she received.
It is amusing that several of you so readily characterize the fear of anti-genies as racism. It just isn't so, or certainly isn't for everyone who is informed. There is a real danger.
Surely you don't characterize the present fear - right here on Earth - of humans who take steroids, as racist. It isn't racism, it is common sense and a real bona fide fear.
I don't, but that leads me to the opposite conclusion. The average athlete, the average genie, and the average human are not that different. There's so much a spectrum in all of those that on average the comparison is a wash. So that's why there is no danger from genies any more than there is danger from athletes. The one big difference is that genetic manipulation is inheritable, whereas phenotypical modifications through exercise and diet aren't. On the other hand, if athletes are athletes because they are genetically predisposed to be good at sports, then athletes having children with other athletes could be seen as a form of eugenic selection. So, no, athletes and genies are not that different.
Which is why there shouldn't be discrimination. You're right, there's no reason to fear an athlete, whether they take steroids or not, dietary supplements or not. Like I said, there will be extremes, as someone who doesn't know how strong they are and cannot carefully measure their physical interactions with other people. And of course there are side-effects, from steroids and from genetic manipulation. Both can make someone mentally unstable due to hormonal imbalance.
The point is that generalising the fear based on the extremes is prejudice. It's not racism per se it's not about race, but it follows the same lines.
Athletes are getting their necks broken on the gridiron because the playing field is not level. You cannot leave the safety of nonmodified humans on the existence or lack thereof of morals, scruples, values, and awareness that may or may not exist in genies.
You're pointing out extremes. I will agree with you that those do indeed pose a danger, which is why the majority of sports competitions (or even all of them) ban steroids of many sorts. There's mandatory drug testing. I could see the same applying to genies: ensuring they are not extremely modified, or maybe even creating categories like boxing does by weight.
I was pointing out the average. The majority of genies won't have a clear an advantage, much less a definitive advantage over a lot of criteria. And I'm also supposing the majority of the population outside of Earth is a genie of some sort or another any way.
"Awareness" comes into play because there will be instances where genies may not even be aware when they pose an unnatural danger to nongenies. Or that a particular interaction or confrontation is totally unfair.
You can replace "genie" with a lot of other labels. Imagine a Sphixian who is not otherwise genetic modified: just the fact that they've lived their entire life under 1.35 gravities means they will have more muscle. The same applies to inhabitants of Bogotá, who by virtue of living at 2800+ metres above mean sea level have a higher oxygen transport capacity in their blood. I suppose a planet that receives much less sunlight would also cause its inhabitants to develop better night/twilight vision. And for each of those, you can think of an opposite: a low-gravity planet, a high-pressure (or simply higher partial oxygen pressure) one, a high-luminosity one, and so forth.
So, twins separated at birth, one raised on Sphinx (1.35 G) and the other on Mars (0.3 G), is it a fair competition? If you answer "yes," then it would be fair to allow some genies in some competitions. If you answer "no," then you have to have standards for competitions and other types of interaction, which again allows genies. And the other labels.
That's your opinion and most of the rest of the people in the forum disagreed. Especially the part that it was Nimitz, not Honor's years of practising sports of many types.
Are you also going to say that it was unfair to the Maccabeans that Nimitz was present?
What other secrets do genies throughout the Galaxy hide from nongenies, like ESP, mind reading, telekinesis, etc.
Most likely, none of those. Not even the MAlign has such things. They'd love nothing better than to crack the secret of what makes the treecat telepathy work, but they haven't yet.
None of these talents would be fair in many settings, quite dangerous in most, and downright illegal in at least one instance. Like Honor using the one specific talent in her duel against Burdette. Even Eloise lightheartedly accused Honor of "cheating" in her diplomatic efforts. Honor's ability may exist naturally in other genies even without a 'Cat.
The ability to be very perceptive can be seen as cheating. Take counting cards at casinos: it's not illegal, it's not cheating per se, but they do ask you to go away. Her advantage would be no different if Honor had really good eyesight and had been able to see the ready tells that humans have when they're lying. Studying your opponent and being really good at what you do is not cheating.
Why do you think the RMN and SIS kept files on enemy admirals and COs? Why did the PN do that (remember that Parnell recognised Honor on Cerberus)?
And besides, there's nothing so far shown that there's anything genetic about Honor's empathic abilities. The only correlation we have is that her father also has very good empathic abilities. For all we know, it's a characteristic that is inherent on all humans and simply latent. So the fact that she did exercise and learn how to use her talent (and she did, she trained with Nimitz) makes her again no different from athletes, skilled surgeons, successful diplomats, or Nobel laureates.
And why is the consensus that nongenies will always be the ones picking a fight. Are you all suggesting that genies are all kindly, cuddly teddy bears without screws loose? Like humans on steroids.
Oh, definitely not. Exhibit A: Alignment.
But again you prove the point: unmodified humans are perfectly capable of extremes too.
But to think genies have themselves under control is preposterous. Even Honor can be a nutcase.
But to think that non-genies have themselves under control is preposterous.
I'm not saying genies are inherently good or inherently bad. I'm saying that on average their differences make them no more different than another, unmodified human from a place and culture very far away. Assuming such a thing exists as unmodified humans.
I still think the MA can choose to fight fire with fire by divulging Honor's secret, possibly causing a Constitutional and religious crisis on Grayson. Plus the MA can air all of the Winton's secrets of how they downplay their genie status.
Agreed, but not because of her genie status. Her high metabolism and strength are quite obvious to most people who've met her. It would be because of her being a descendant of an Alignment-designed genotype.
The MA can cause upheaval in the MBS by sowing seeds of doubt about Treecats controlling humans by mind control, and that they were simply fighting fire with fire by using nanite control. We as readers know better, but a galaxy of humans who are already testy about Treecats won't. Opening up about the details of Honor's encounter with Burdette will get the ball rolling if the MA so chooses to fight fire with fire.
I would imagine the danger represented by genies is why contact sports is nearly extinct throughout the HV.
And when the Galaxy absorbs the rest of the Frankensteins of the MA, things will get a lot worse.
I again agree that there's a lot of damage the MAlign can do by way of PR. Whether what they say is true or not is irrelevant. It would be just a bonus for them if the kernel of the message is actually true, but having to concoct a packet full of lies would not be more than a minor speed bump in a PR / propaganda campaign.
I agree that contact sports are probably nearly extinct, but the reason having nothing to do with genies. Take the example of the Martian and Sphinxian twins from above: those twain would have identical genes, but would never play the same sport against with one another.
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