Spoilers! Be warned ...So, what happens next?

Joat42 wrote:I had an off the wall idea last night. What if the 5th race was attacked and genocided by the other races somehow? And what if the Other Guys doesn't exist? And what if the remnants of the 5th race went to Earth and tinkered with our evolution to produce Homo Sapiens in an effort to somehow preserve their legacy?

I know, that is a lot of "what if's"

Agreed on the first half of the idea. The second, that they came to Earth, tinkered with us, then disappeared, is unlikely. If enough of them survived to do any tinkering at all, they retained their technology, which means they could have re-bootstrapped themselves into space. Plus, there was no guarantee that the tinkering would achieve anything or worse that it wouldn't be detrimental to the homo erectus species they tinkered with.

What if we the Humans are the 5th Race. We ran far and fast; but had a tech fall as we arrived at our new world?

Mithandril

Mithandril wrote:What if we the Humans are the 5th Race. We ran far and fast; but had a tech fall as we arrived at our new world?

Mithandril

We haven't been homo sapiens for long enough.

But if whoever those were arrived on Earth and merged with the homo erectus or the Cro-Magnon to create the modern humans, that would be a passable theory. They'd need to explain how someone arrives on a planet with technology but loses all of it and the history, without leaving a trace. Not even modern archaeologists can find them.

A more plausible explanation is that from Battlestar Galactica: mitochondria. According to Wikipedia, the Mitochondrial Eve is calculated to be from 150k T-years ago, around the time that we became homo sapiens but before the dispersal from Africa.

Mithandril wrote:What if we the Humans are the 5th Race. We ran far and fast; but had a tech fall as we arrived at our new world?

Mithandril

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
We haven't been homo sapiens for long enough.

But if whoever those were arrived on Earth and merged with the homo erectus or the Cro-Magnon to create the modern humans, that would be a passable theory. They'd need to explain how someone arrives on a planet with technology but loses all of it and the history, without leaving a trace. Not even modern archaeologists can find them.

A more plausible explanation is that from Battlestar Galactica: mitochondria. According to Wikipedia, the Mitochondrial Eve is calculated to be from 150k T-years ago, around the time that we became homo sapiens but before the dispersal from Africa.

Now we are seriously skirting the plot for Niven's Protector.

Assuming OotD phase space mimics the Honorverse hyperspace with respects to different levels/degrees/energy states, Dvorak's ship is likely hitting the gamma or delta band equivalents in the Honorverse. Those sorts of multiples to c would allow Dave to make Vlad's trip in less that 3 years and even more likely in less than 1 year.

That argues for Dave to have visited every proximate civilization that might be interested in joining the Terrain Empire. That would include civilizations that are ignorant of the GH as well as Civs that are severely under the GH's thumb. Dave's degree of success would be key to what he wants to talk to Vlad about.

I suspect that experience directs Dave to alter Vlad's purely retaliatory response. So, what sort of out does the Terrain Empire offer the Shangairi?

PeterZ wrote:Assuming OotD phase space mimics the Honorverse hyperspace with respects to different levels/degrees/energy states, Dvorak's ship is likely hitting the gamma or delta band equivalents in the Honorverse. Those sorts of multiples to c would allow Dave to make Vlad's trip in less that 3 years and even more likely in less than 1 year.

That argues for Dave to have visited every proximate civilization that might be interested in joining the Terrain Empire. That would include civilizations that are ignorant of the GH as well as Civs that are severely under the GH's thumb. Dave's degree of success would be key to what he wants to talk to Vlad about.

I suspect that experience directs Dave to alter Vlad's purely retaliatory response. So, what sort of out does the Terrain Empire offer the Shangairi?

My guess is that this will be where the Shongairi concept of ‘honourable submission’ comes back into play. If the humans and vampires prove that they’re the Pack Alphas, Shongairi honour codes practically require surrender and obedient submission.

Though if Dave is in charge of this, he could end up as de jure ruler of the former Shongairi Empire - which makes me wonder if this series is partly the story of how Emperor David I of the Dvorak Dynasty accidentally created a Terran Empire.

PeterZ wrote:I suspect that experience directs Dave to alter Vlad's purely retaliatory response. So, what sort of out does the Terrain Empire offer the Shangairi?

Indeed. "We need to talk" .. about what? What has David discovered in the last 15 years that he really needs to tell Vlad before he sends Shonga back to the Stone Age?

Are the Shongairi pawns in a larger scheme? Maybe he's uncovered enough evidence that the GH Council manipulated the Shongairi towards their goals. In fact, this was hinted at and we're only lacking proof. But what if it goes further?

Or maybe are we being judged on what we do with the tech boost we were given by the OG? If so, then Vlad shouldn't impose his vengeance upon the Shongairi. We would be failing the test.

Bluesqueak wrote:Though if Dave is in charge of this, he could end up as de jure ruler of the former Shongairi Empire - which makes me wonder if this series is partly the story of how Emperor David I of the Dvorak Dynasty accidentally created a Terran Empire.

Pretty sure that it would be Empress Morgana I. Then she'll have to marry Merlin and discover that the Moon is actually the OG's space station.

Mithandril wrote:What if we the Humans are the 5th Race. We ran far and fast; but had a tech fall as we arrived at our new world?

Mithandril

Genetics says no. Same problem as with the Fifth Imperium--the paleontologists would quickly figure out that things didn't match up properly. Humanity evolved from Earth stock, period. (Although detours are possible--consider the Giants novels of James P. Hogan. Humanity per se evolved on another world, but transplanted from Earth millions of years ago. I believe it would still be detected but it would be subtle, not standing out like a sore thumb.)

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

PeterZ wrote:I suspect that experience directs Dave to alter Vlad's purely retaliatory response. So, what sort of out does the Terrain Empire offer the Shangairi?

Indeed. "We need to talk" .. about what? What has David discovered in the last 15 years that he really needs to tell Vlad before he sends Shonga back to the Stone Age?

Are the Shongairi pawns in a larger scheme? Maybe he's uncovered enough evidence that the GH Council manipulated the Shongairi towards their goals. In fact, this was hinted at and we're only lacking proof. But what if it goes further?

Or maybe are we being judged on what we do with the tech boost we were given by the OG? If so, then Vlad shouldn't impose his vengeance upon the Shongairi. We would be failing the test.

I think Earth has come to realize that genocide isn't the proper response, the species as a whole isn't guilty of what some of those in power did.