Pavel Young's and Lord Burdette's options

Jonathan_S wrote:I wouldn't think losing a slander case would necessarily wreck all your standing. It'd depend on what the slander was.

In this instance Young would be wrecked by bringing the slander case because otherwise inadmissible evidence would show that he'd acted entirely beyond the pale; and now been caught at it.

But if Young somehow utterly beat all odds and won the slander case I don't think Honor getting hit with some civil penalty for slander would lose all her standing in society. Some standing, temporarily, probably - but it wouldn't be career ending or turn her into a pariah. (Well, her existing enemies would probably harp on it and try to maximize the damage, but still wouldn't ruin her) After all, all that would prove is that in the eyes of the law she knowingly propagated an untruth about someone she despised.

However I do think it would ruin her ability to challenge Young to a dual on those grounds. If she challenged him based on hiring Denver to kill Paul I don't think Young would lose any societaly standing for refusing to give satisfaction over a court had ruled wasn't true. I think he could easily refuse by saying she was incorrect and he had no need to defend such a specious claimed offense. I have to believe that society doesn't shun people who blow off truly frivolous or baseless challenges to a duel.

That doesn't block Honor from dueling him at all, but she'd have to do so over some other insult or offense - something that society would shun Young for failing to face. (And I suspect their previous bad encounters wouldn't meet that standard now - too much time has passed and claiming challenge over the Saganami Island incident, being stabbed in the back of Basilisk, or even his cowardly behavior that got him Court Marshaled, would (correctly) seem like Honor grasping on a pretext to challenge his when her actual complain was the one dismissed in court. So she'd probably need for him to commit some new and fairly egregious offense against her - so all he has to do to avoid her challenge is ignore her)

cthia wrote:Woulda Shoulda Coulda


What were some of the options of Pavel Young and Steadholder Burdette?

cthia wrote:Burdette definitely shoulda used the courts. Benjamin shat all over "separation of church and state."

Besides, Burdette was simply facing the Doctrine of his Test. And Benjamin was simply using the situation as a fulcrum to illegally leverage his own unlawful powerbase.

Prestwick replied with a small, wry grin. "Your Grace, if my predecessors and I intended to establish permanent ministerial control of the government, we made a serious error—as the Court reminded us—in not amending the Constitution." His smile grew a bit wider, and Benjamin returned it tightly, but then Prestwick leaned forward with a more serious air.
"The problem, Your Grace, is that for over a hundred years, precedent said the Protector was the symbolic guarantor of a stable continuity, but that the actual business of running the government was his Council's affair, while the Constitution still said he was the head of government, not just the state." He shrugged. "When you reasserted your authority, you certainly violated that precedent, but the written Constitution—which every Grayson steadholder and military officer is sworn to uphold—gave you every right to do so. We simply never anticipated that you would."

tlb wrote:
PS. Lord Burdette would have had no chance in court; because of the confession of Edward Julian Martin, that ties him to the deaths of Reverend Hanks, of children and of many others. He could try to twist the trial to the usurpation of the Protector, but that would only be germane as an attempted defense of what he had ordered.

tlb wrote:PS. Lord Burdette would have had no chance in court; because of the confession of Edward Julian Martin, that ties him to the deaths of Reverend Hanks, of children and of many others. He could try to twist the trial to the usurpation of the Protector, but that would only be germane as an attempted defense of what he had ordered.

Fox2! wrote:After trial, conviction, and sentencing, then what? A "simple execution"? (See Star Trek "Bread and Circuses") A firing squad with gold-plated bullets (or pulser darts)? (He is, after all, a Steadholder) Or the silken noose?

And Mueller's paid for it, too, Honor thought grimly.

The steadholder had been impeached, tried, and condemned to death in barely one week, and sentence had been carried out immediately. There had been no question who'd handed the memory stones to Elizabeth and Cromarty, and his fate had been sealed from the moment the beacon inside Elizabeth's stone had been discovered.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:Burdette definitely shoulda used the courts. Benjamin shat all over "separation of church and state."

Besides, Burdette was simply facing the Doctrine of his Test. And Benjamin was simply using the situation as a fulcrum to illegally leverage his own unlawful powerbase.

There is no separation of Church and State in Grayson, but that is not the problem with your statements. Instead the problem is in stating "Benjamin was simply using the situation as a fulcrum to illegally leverage his own unlawful powerbase".

-snip-

From Flag in Exile, chapter 16:

Prestwick replied with a small, wry grin. "Your Grace, if my predecessors and I intended to establish permanent ministerial control of the government, we made a serious error—as the Court reminded us—in not amending the Constitution." His smile grew a bit wider, and Benjamin returned it tightly, but then Prestwick leaned forward with a more serious air.

"The problem, Your Grace, is that for over a hundred years, precedent said the Protector was the symbolic guarantor of a stable continuity, but that the actual business of running the government was his Council's affair, while the Constitution still said he was the head of government, not just the state." He shrugged. "When you reasserted your authority, you certainly violated that precedent, but the written Constitution—which every Grayson steadholder and military officer is sworn to uphold—gave you every right to do so. We simply never anticipated that you would."

tlb wrote:PS. Lord Burdette would have had no chance in court; because of the confession of Edward Julian Martin, that ties him to the deaths of Reverend Hanks, of children and of many others. He could try to twist the trial to the usurpation of the Protector, but that would only be germane as an attempted defense of what he had ordered.

Because religion and public life are inseparable on Grayson, the Sword is also responsible for upholding the authority of the Church of Humanity Unchained. It is the Sword’s responsibility
to enforce the decisions of the Church if necessary. By extension, the Sword is also responsible for enforcing judicial decisions of the High Court.

Duckk wrote:How many times do we have to tell you to read the books? There is no separation of church and state. From House of Steel:

Because religion and public life are inseparable on Grayson, the Sword is also responsible for upholding the authority of the Church of Humanity Unchained. It is the Sword’s responsibility
to enforce the decisions of the Church if necessary. By extension, the Sword is also responsible for enforcing judicial decisions of the High Court.

The First Elder is also automatically a part of the Protector’s Council, and the judiciary is trained entirely by the Church.

Also, keep real world politics in the Politics forum.

Matthew 22:21 Jesus said "Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar's; and to God the things that are God's."