Post election musings

It I well and truly over. Biden has won. The legal challenges to the election are whimpering out with none of them producing evidence to overturn the result. A lawsuit without evidence is the same as a tweet with a filing fee.

None of the states that matter with Republican legislatures are showing any appetite for choosing a rogue set of electors to contradict majority vote in their state. If they did, those electors wouldn't replace the electors chosen by majority vote. That would simply force Congress to choose which set of electors whose vote would be cast in the Electoral College. There is a zero percent chance that the rogue electors would be chosen.

So It's over. Unless he dies, starts drooling (bow to Dilandu here ), or some other way becomes incapacitated, on January 20th Joe Biden will be sworn in as the 46th president of the United States.

Just thinking... about Trump voters. The liberal media tends to paint all 72 million plus voters as being wild eyed right wingers. That is not true. The brush is too wide. For example to be concrete, I have two neighbors who voted for Trump. I asked both of them why. The one told me that he compared what happened with his 401k (pension account) under Obama with how it performed under Trump and then voted for Trump. The other said that he really didn't understand everything that was going on and he had voted Republican all his life. It is certainly true that Republicanism has been bone deep in South Dakota culture going back to statehood in 1889.

Both of these guys normally do not pay a lot of attention to politics and would qualify as low information voters.

I wonder what percentage of Trump supporters would be in this category rather than being hard shell right wing. Any connents?

Don

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To be ignorant of politics is a privilege. One that, in my opinion, we cannot afford to grant to people.

Your friends there, who treat an election as a ritual that doesn't change anything, are the big problem here.
Democracy affords us many freedoms. But every freedom comes with a duty: The freedom to own firearms comes with a duty to use them responsibly. The freedom to speak one's mind comes with a duty to not misuse that right. The freedom to vote comes with a duty to consider the good of yourself and the good of others.
Your friends there, and the millions of people who vote republican "because they always have" (just like those who reflexively vote democrat, they are an issue too!)? They need to be shaken from their stupor. They need to realize that, even if nothing much changes for them personally, there are people out there for whom an election result is literally a matter of life and death.

The E wrote:To be ignorant of politics is a privilege. One that, in my opinion, we cannot afford to grant to people.

Your friends there, who treat an election as a ritual that doesn't change anything, are the big problem here.
Democracy affords us many freedoms. But every freedom comes with a duty: The freedom to own firearms comes with a duty to use them responsibly. The freedom to speak one's mind comes with a duty to not misuse that right. The freedom to vote comes with a duty to consider the good of compares and the good of others.
Your friends there, and the millions of people who vote republican "because they always have" (just like those who reflexively vote democrat, they are an issue too!)? They need to be shaken from their stupor. They need to realize that, even if nothing much changes for them personally, there are people out there for whom an election result is literally a matter of life and death.

I agree with all of this. My point, though, was a bit different. What I was saying was that my friends aren't right wing crazies. My musing is that there aren't 70 million people out there wanting to destroy American democracy as we know it. It could be that there might be a way to reach out and find things in common with them. I intend to start out by suggesting that the next time they nominate a candidate, they should vet him. It was rediculously easy to vet Trump. All it took was 15 minutes of googling and I knew the essential character of the man. I did go and inform one individual and he glared at me with the implication that I couldn't be trusted because I was a slimey liberal. I then told him to go do his own vetting. I doubt that he did.

Don

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Don

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It's well and truly over? Don't be daft.

Trump will open his 2024 campaign as soon as Biden is confirmed as President-elect or perhaps inaugurated. In a sense, it's already started. He will spend four years attacking everything Biden does and undermining the USA's international positions.

I wonder what percentage of Trump supporters would be in this category rather than being hard shell right wing. Any connents?

Whatever the percentage of Trump cultists versus Republican loyalists is, it's too big for the Republican party to risk losing hold of; "just" five percent would be nearly four million voters. Rather than see him running as an independent, they'll let him win another nomination.

One aspect that I found interesting is that there were a significant number of people who voted Republican in the House and Senate on political grounds, yet voted for Biden at the same time. The only inference that can be gained from that is that not voting for Trump for them wasn't based on politics, but on personal distaste for the LOTUS (Loser Of The United States)

munroburton wrote:It's well and truly over? Don't be daft.

Trump will open his 2024 campaign as soon as Biden is confirmed as President-elect or perhaps inaugurated. In a sense, it's already started. He will spend four years attacking everything Biden does and undermining the USA's international positions.

I wonder what percentage of Trump supporters would be in this category rather than being hard shell right wing. Any connents?

Whatever the percentage of Trump cultists versus Republican loyalists is, it's too big for the Republican party to risk losing hold of; "just" five percent would be nearly four million voters. Rather than see him running as an independent, they'll let him win another nomination.

But can they win another election that way? Trump now has a record. He was a minority president the the first time. He won the electoral college by about 78000 votes spread over 3 states...

But there is more. Trump is in enough legal trouble to be a convicted felon doing jail time by 2024. Then too, his health has been deteriorating. It's a long time to 2024. Who knows what will happen in the meantime?

Don

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n7axw wrote:My musing is that there aren't 70 million people out there wanting to destroy American democracy as we know it. It could be that there might be a way to reach out and find things in common with them.

My response to that whole "we need to find a way to reach out and reconnect" is "Them first". Conservative media needs to stop painting anything to their left as suspicious and unamerican first. They need to stop fear-mongering about Antifa, immigrants, public health care and "The Left" before reconciliation can actually happen.
They need to start listening first before we can begin talking to them, basically.

Just consider this: When the Democrats win an election, the main vibe always seems to be "well, now that they won, they need to reach across the aisle" (despite "liberal" positions being overwhelmingly popular). Republicans, it seems to me, are not under the same sort of expectation: sure, similar soundbites happen, but noone really expects republicans to actually do anything resembling "reaching across the aisle".

There are a bunch of things all people across the political spectrum have in common. But that's all irrelevant in the face of the GOPs (and their mouthpieces in the media, its enablers among the rich, and their voter bases) refusal to get back to this idea of a common, shared reality.

n7axw wrote:But can they win another election that way? Trump now has a record. He was a minority president the the first time. He won the electoral college by about 78000 votes spread over 3 states...

But there is more. Trump is in enough legal trouble to be a convicted felon doing jail time by 2024. Then too, his health has been deteriorating. It's a long time to 2024. Who knows what will happen in the meantime?

Don

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Sure they can. Maybe not the Presidency, but they'll hang onto all those federal and state seats.

They get the Republican loyalists regardless of what happens. If they endorse Trump again, they don't really lose any Republican voters - the ones who refuse to vote for Trump(even going so far as to back Trump's direct opponent). But if they don't endorse Trump, they lose the spillover effect from voters who mainly turn out to vote for Trump.

The E wrote:

n7axw wrote:My musing is that there aren't 70 million people out there wanting to destroy American democracy as we know it. It could be that there might be a way to reach out and find things in common with them.

My response to that whole "we need to find a way to reach out and reconnect" is "Them first". Conservative media needs to stop painting anything to their left as suspicious and unamerican first. They need to stop fear-mongering about Antifa, immigrants, public health care and "The Left" before reconciliation can actually happen.
They need to start listening first before we can begin talking to them, basically.

Just consider this: When the Democrats win an election, the main vibe always seems to be "well, now that they won, they need to reach across the aisle" (despite "liberal" positions being overwhelmingly popular). Republicans, it seems to me, are not under the same sort of expectation: sure, similar soundbites happen, but noone really expects republicans to actually do anything resembling "reaching across the aisle".

There are a bunch of things all people across the political spectrum have in common. But that's all irrelevant in the face of the GOPs (and their mouthpieces in the media, its enablers among the rich, and their voter bases) refusal to get back to this idea of a common, shared reality.

I would have a hard time arguing with this. Although if liberal positions are so popular, why do we have so much trouble electing people who will implement them? The election, after all, is the real measure of popularity.

If we are to pull back from the brink and restore the health of our democracy, we need to turn down the temperature. I know that I have spent an unhealthy amount of time being angry these last four years. When everybody is pissed off, it is hard to either listen or talk.

Joe Biden does have some personal traits that might help all of us with that. I hope so anyway.

Don

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Calling it now.

Trump to pardon Pence, then resign and flee.

Pence to then pardon Trump, then resign.

Meaning Pelosi to President for 20 to 30 days, maybe as many as 40, forcing a by election for her seat and a public bun fight over the speakers position.

Followed by a likely second one if Pelosi has a chance to win her seat back.

And no transition authorisation until Pelosi orders it signed.