Pavel Young's and Lord Burdette's options

There was another option, even after (reluctantly) accepting the challenge: have Honor killed. Everyone would suspect him, but so long as no one could prove it, at worst he'd remain a discredited figure. As said above, he could make a comeback in a few years.

He tried that, with the attempted hit at the restaurant.

Duckk wrote:

ThinksMarkedly wrote:]There was another option, even after (reluctantly) accepting the challenge: have Honor killed. Everyone would suspect him, but so long as no one could prove it, at worst he'd remain a discredited figure. As said above, he could make a comeback in a few years.

He tried that, with the attempted hit at the restaurant.

I don't recall, did Honor know or simply suspect Young of that hit? At any rate, Honor was difficult to get to being mostly aboard ship. But, all thru the series I kept waiting for Young to go after someone she loved, like her mother. Much like Hauptman threatened to do short of murder. Young could have easily gotten to Allison just to hurt Honor. He would have paid the price for it if he was convicted of the mastermind behind the hit. But he wouldn't have paid a price that was any higher than for going after Honor directly.

Someone in my social circle once suggested a more benign attack on Honor's mother using the power of the NH Files. Similar to what was threatened by Hauptman.

cthia wrote:Someone in my social circle once suggested a more benign attack on Honor's mother using the power of the NH Files. Similar to what was threatened by Hauptman.

The North Hollow files consisted of blackmail material, so it is not clear how useful that would be. What Hauptman threatened was a bit more direct, since Honor's parents worked for one of his companies; I assume that he was threatening to have them fired with something cooked up, so they would have a hard time finding other employment.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:Someone in my social circle once suggested a more benign attack on Honor's mother using the power of the NH Files. Similar to what was threatened by Hauptman.

The North Hollow files consisted of blackmail material, so it is not clear how useful that would be. What Hauptman threatened was a bit more direct, since Honor's parents worked for one of his companies; I assume that he was threatening to have them fired with something cooked up, so they would have a hard time finding other employment.

Hauptman likely didn't realize how influential Honor's mother actually is/was on Beowulf. Had Hauptman actually gone through with the threat to hurt Honor's parents, it is quite possible his cartel could have found itself facing increased customs inspections and difficulty in finding landing slips in Beowulf. The SL would have been more than happy to focus extra hard on Manticore's largest cartel - and Manticore would have hesitated to push the matter if the Beowulf government raised the issue diplomatically.

cthia wrote:I don't recall, did Honor know or simply suspect Young of that hit? At any rate, Honor was difficult to get to being mostly aboard ship. But, all thru the series I kept waiting for Young to go after someone she loved, like her mother.

He might have tried that, but if he did, it would have ended up worse for him. Much worse. There are very few things that could have surpassed Honor's anger at losing a loved one, but for sure one of them would be Honor and Alfred's anger at losing a loved one.

Honor had a lot to lose in going after Young. Alfred would have had much, much less, especially if Allison had died. Alfred massacred an entire kidnap team to rescue her when they had barely talked a handful of times. There would be nothing left for the Benton-Ramirez y Chou family to even put pressure on.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:I don't recall, did Honor know or simply suspect Young of that hit? At any rate, Honor was difficult to get to being mostly aboard ship. But, all thru the series I kept waiting for Young to go after someone she loved, like her mother.

He might have tried that, but if he did, it would have ended up worse for him. Much worse. There are very few things that could have surpassed Honor's anger at losing a loved one, but for sure one of them would be Honor and Alfred's anger at losing a loved one.

Honor had a lot to lose in going after Young. Alfred would have had much, much less, especially if Allison had died. Alfred massacred an entire kidnap team to rescue her when they had barely talked a handful of times. There would be nothing left for the Benton-Ramirez y Chou family to even put pressure on.

It was a fair fight. One (former) Marine against most of a dozen thugs.

tlb wrote:

cthia wrote:Someone in my social circle once suggested a more benign attack on Honor's mother using the power of the NH Files. Similar to what was threatened by Hauptman.

The North Hollow files consisted of blackmail material, so it is not clear how useful that would be. What Hauptman threatened was a bit more direct, since Honor's parents worked for one of his companies; I assume that he was threatening to have them fired with something cooked up, so they would have a hard time finding other employment.

Erls wrote:Hauptman likely didn't realize how influential Honor's mother actually is/was on Beowulf. Had Hauptman actually gone through with the threat to hurt Honor's parents, it is quite possible his cartel could have found itself facing increased customs inspections and difficulty in finding landing slips in Beowulf. The SL would have been more than happy to focus extra hard on Manticore's largest cartel - and Manticore would have hesitated to push the matter if the Beowulf government raised the issue diplomatically.

That is an interesting point. I recall thinking how divided the government woulda ended up over Hauptman's attempt to carry out his threat. The entire mess may have been as divided as Young's court martial in the interest of the war effort. Hauptman was instrumental to the war effort. He always has been. I wonder if the stink could have muddied Manticore's standing with Beowulf.

I'm thinking the NH Files coulda been used against Honor indirectly. Actually they were used against her in the trial to prevent what Young shoulda got.

We don't know what was in those Files, tlb, but we know a lot of the cream of Manticore's population were. And there is only six degrees of separation.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:I don't recall, did Honor know or simply suspect Young of that hit? At any rate, Honor was difficult to get to being mostly aboard ship. But, all thru the series I kept waiting for Young to go after someone she loved, like her mother.

He might have tried that, but if he did, it would have ended up worse for him. Much worse. There are very few things that could have surpassed Honor's anger at losing a loved one, but for sure one of them would be Honor and Alfred's anger at losing a loved one.

Honor had a lot to lose in going after Young. Alfred would have had much, much less, especially if Allison had died. Alfred massacred an entire kidnap team to rescue her when they had barely talked a handful of times. There would be nothing left for the Benton-Ramirez y Chou family to even put pressure on.

Much worse, how? Because much worse for him would also mean much worse for Honor and family.

If Alfred woulda tore him limb from limb, he woulda been jailed. (I wonder if Manticore has the death penalty?) Young is a member of the Lords. Alfred is simply a lowly Commoner at the end of the day. You can't have genetically enhanced Commoners tearing Lords limb from limb. Honor woulda ended up without a father and her mother woulda been widowed. Honor would lose again as when Young drew the worst out of her during the rape attempt, by now drawing the worst out of her father. And of course, we all know what was at stake for Honor.

cthia wrote:If Alfred woulda tore him limb from limb, he woulda been jailed.

Only if he got caught.

Young is a member of the Lords. Alfred is simply a lowly Commoner at the end of the day. You can't have genetically enhanced Commoners tearing Lords limb from limb. Honor woulda ended up without a father and her mother woulda been widowed. Honor would lose again as when Young drew the worst out of her during the rape attempt, by now drawing the worst out of her father. And of course, we all know what was at stake for Honor.

I'm not disputing that Allison dying, whether Alfred was ailed for it or not, or Alfred being jailed after an unsuccessful attempt on Allison's life would be bad for Honor. There's no circumstance under which the loss of either or both wouldn't affect here even more deeply than the loss of Paul Tankersley.

I was simply making a comment that Pavel would wish he had been killed by a simple gunshot if he tried any of this.

cthia wrote:I don't recall, did Honor know or simply suspect Young of that hit? At any rate, Honor was difficult to get to being mostly aboard ship. But, all thru the series I kept waiting for Young to go after someone she loved, like her mother. Much like Hauptman threatened to do short of murder. Young could have easily gotten to Allison just to hurt Honor. He would have paid the price for it if he was convicted of the mastermind behind the hit. But he wouldn't have paid a price that was any higher than for going after Honor directly.

Someone in my social circle once suggested a more benign attack on Honor's mother using the power of the NH Files. Similar to what was threatened by Hauptman.

Assuming Young survived Alfred and Honor after harming Alison, there was a wild card he never considered: Jacques. Would you want your picture on the BSC's orderly room walls, with the notation, "This one's family"?