A Clearing House of Crimes against African Americans

Joat42 wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Your response reveals an interesting fixation. While I could not resist the temptation to respond with information that refutes your racist, anti American bigotry, you entirely missed the point of my post.

I posted something I knew would get a rise out of you AND relevant to the topic at hand.

Simple as that.

So you admit that you are a troll?

Since none of you fucktard trolls can actually engage rational debate rather than just mindlessly trolling, I'll share my opinion and analysis of the shooting.

Police were responding to fight in progress which is normal at these venues at closing time.
The police observe an armed African-American male shoot two people (both African American) in their presence.
The subject who was still armed with a gun then runs towards them and refuses to obey commands.
The police shoot him.
Justified shooting or unjustified shooting?

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Justified shooting or unjustified shooting?

Congrats, tfly, you found 1 (one) instance of a prima facie justified shooting.

Now please elaborate on how this is in relation to the many instances of unjustified shootings.

Also, please elaborate some more how your criticisms of american politics are good, but people disagreeing with you are anti-american.

The E wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:Justified shooting or unjustified shooting?

Congrats, tfly, you found 1 (one) instance of a prima facie justified shooting.

Now please elaborate on how this is in relation to the many instances of unjustified shootings.

Also, please elaborate some more how your criticisms of american politics are good, but people disagreeing with you are anti-american.

So you now actually think that this shooting by police was justified because you now understand that the subject had shot Black people rather than White people?

How about the Jacob Blake shooting?
Justified or justified?
Does it make any difference to you that Jacob Blake was wanted for domestic sexual assault? Is it relevant that police were called because he was assaulting and robbing the same woman?
Is it relevant that the SUV that he was getting into belonged to this woman that he had raped, assaulted and was robbing?
Is it relevant that the woman's children were in the vehicle?
Is it relevant that given the extremely well known statistics on homicides of children that the police officers had every reason to believe that the children who were being abducted were at extreme risk of being murdered?
What would your opinion be of the police of be if they had decided to allow Jacob Blake to take the children and the children had them been found dead from wounds with the raptor knife that he had in his hand when the police shot him? (The fucktard media denies that he had a knife but it shows clearly in the video.)

Contrary to your ignorant, bigoted opinion, the vast majority of cases where American police kill Black people, the person killed was in the process of committing a violent crime or had just fine so? In most of these cases, the victim was Black or a person of color. What would you have American police do? Would you have them declare open season on Black people?

TFLYTSNBN wrote:

So you now actually think that this shooting by police was justified because you now understand that the subject had shot Black people rather than White people?

How about the Jacob Blake shooting?
Justified or justified?
Does it make any difference to you that Jacob Blake was wanted for domestic sexual assault? Is it relevant that police were called because he was assaulting and robbing the same woman?
Is it relevant that the SUV that he was getting into belonged to this woman that he had raped, assaulted and was robbing?
Is it relevant that the woman's children were in the vehicle?
Is it relevant that given the extremely well known statistics on homicides of children that the police officers had every reason to believe that the children who were being abducted were at extreme risk of being murdered?
What would your opinion be of the police of be if they had decided to allow Jacob Blake to take the children and the children had them been found dead from wounds with the raptor knife that he had in his hand when the police shot him? (The fucktard media denies that he had a knife but it shows clearly in the video.)

Contrary to your ignorant, bigoted opinion, the vast majority of cases where American police kill Black people, the person killed was in the process of committing a violent crime or had just fine so? In most of these cases, the victim was Black or a person of color. What would you have American police do? Would you have them declare open season on Black people?

There seems to be some question as to the location of the knife. But otherwise your characterization of the incident seems on. I would like to see the context of the whole situation filled in better, though. This seems to be a domestic violence situation and those can be nasty and dangerous to everyone, including the police.

Don

-

TFLYTSNBN wrote:So you admit that you are a troll?

Since none of you fucktard trolls can actually engage rational debate rather than just mindlessly trolling, I'll share my opinion and analysis of the shooting.

I'll refer you to your original post that was just a link with no commentary, which merited some prodding to get you to actually say something.

Also, you do understand the difference between anecdotes and data?

Nobody has disputed that some shootings are justified, but considering that 26.8% of all people arrested in the USA is black and 69.5% is white it's strange that a black person is more than twice as likely to be shot by the police even though they only make up about 13% of the population.

Joat42 wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:So you admit that you are a troll?

Since none of you fucktard trolls can actually engage rational debate rather than just mindlessly trolling, I'll share my opinion and analysis of the shooting.

I'll refer you to your original post that was just a link with no commentary, which merited some prodding to get you to actually say something.

Also, you do understand the difference between anecdotes and data?

Nobody has disputed that some shootings are justified, but considering that 26.8% of all people arrested in the USA is black and 69.5% is white it's strange that a black person is more than twice as likely to be shot by the police even though they only make up about 13% of the population.

You need to put those statistics in context of relative crime rates. Take the link I posted to the ezaccess SHR page.

Joat42 wrote:

TFLYTSNBN wrote:So you admit that you are a troll?

Since none of you fucktard trolls can actually engage rational debate rather than just mindlessly trolling, I'll share my opinion and analysis of the shooting.

I'll refer you to your original post that was just a link with no commentary, which merited some prodding to get you to actually say something.

Also, you do understand the difference between anecdotes and data?

Nobody has disputed that some shootings are justified, but considering that 26.8% of all people arrested in the USA is black and 69.5% is white it's strange that a black person is more than twice as likely to be shot by the police even though they only make up about 13% of the population.

You need to put those statistics in context of relative crime rates. Take the link I posted to the ezaccess SHR page.

TFLYTSNBN wrote:So you now actually think that this shooting by police was justified because you now understand that the subject had shot Black people rather than White people?

I think you're confusing me with someone else; Before the post this is in response to, I don't think I ever had an opinion on that specific case.

Based on the evidence presented, the shooting here seems to be above-board (inasmuch as any police action resulting in fatalities can be). That's all there is to it.

How about the Jacob Blake shooting?
Justified or justified?

Unjustified.

Does it make any difference to you that Jacob Blake was wanted for domestic sexual assault? Is it relevant that police were called because he was assaulting and robbing the same woman?
Is it relevant that the SUV that he was getting into belonged to this woman that he had raped, assaulted and was robbing?
Is it relevant that the woman's children were in the vehicle?
Is it relevant that given the extremely well known statistics on homicides of children that the police officers had every reason to believe that the children who were being abducted were at extreme risk of being murdered?

All irrelevant.

The police officers escalated straight from tasing to a fatal shooting; one would think that there were some steps in between that could have been taken to prevent Blake from fleeing the scene.

See, this is the "the deceased was no angel" part of american conservatives trying to diminish police violence against non-whites. You're trying to build up a picture where, no matter the precise circumstances of that shooting, the deceased did on some level deserve to be shot; I fundamentally disagree with that.

What would your opinion be of the police of be if they had decided to allow Jacob Blake to take the children and the children had them been found dead from wounds with the raptor knife that he had in his hand when the police shot him? (The fucktard media denies that he had a knife but it shows clearly in the video.)

oh no, the dreaded stack of hypotheticals! What if Blake fled the scene, What if Blake harmed or killed the children, What if Blake was secretly three Hitlers in an overcoat....
There are reasons why a police officer may choose to let a suspect flee. That this may backfire is one of the risks law enforcement runs into, however: What stopped the police officers on the scene from shooting out the tires of Blake's vehicle and thus impeding him?

Contrary to your ignorant, bigoted opinion, the vast majority of cases where American police kill Black people, the person killed was in the process of committing a violent crime or had just fine so? In most of these cases, the victim was Black or a person of color. What would you have American police do? Would you have them declare open season on Black people?

Are you absolutely, positively sure about that.

Are you equally absolutely, positively sure that, in every case where police action led to fatalities, the use of deadly force was the only possible response the police had?

That's the underlying argument here: There are legitimate situations where law enforcement needs to employ deadly force. However, use of deadly force by the police needs to be under strict and continual scrutiny; one of the results of that scrutiny is that in the US, police uses deadly force against african-americans far more often than it does against other groups. This, combined with the historical record of racial discrimination in the US, reveals that there is some deeply ingrained prejudice at play.

Blake's situation is a bit murkier than George Floyd's was. I agree with E's points. But will add a bit more food for thought. So far, we only have one side of the domestic violence dispute. We really need all sides to pass judgment on Blake or his girl friend.

But that is a separate subject from the immediate matter at hand; the conduct of the police during Blake's apprehension. It seems that the police went for the guns a bit quick. There are ways of subduing a suspect that don't involve the use of a gun even if a knife is involved.

I think that there are two issues at play here that merit discussion. First, black men are very much afraid of the police...for reasons that have already been discussed. Second, the police are very much afraid of young black men. That has been painfully obvious over what is a very long string of similar incidents going back well beyond the time when this started to gain notoriety.

The resulting mix has been toxic and lethal.

Don

-

n7axw wrote:Blake's situation is a bit murkier than George Floyd's was. I agree with E's points. But will add a bit more food for thought. So far, we only have one side of the domestic violence dispute. We really need all sides to pass judgment on Blake or his girl friend.

But that is a separate subject from the immediate matter at hand; the conduct of the police during Blake's apprehension. It seems that the police went for the guns a bit quick. There are ways of subduing a suspect that don't involve the use of a gun even if a knife is involved.

I think that there are two issues at play here that merit discussion. First, black men are very much afraid of the police...for reasons that have already been discussed. Second, the police are very much afraid of young black men. That has been painfully obvious over what is a very long string of similar incidents going back well beyond the time when this started to gain notoriety.

The resulting mix has been toxic and lethal.

Don

-

OMG! I actually agree with some of your points.

One of the major problems with American policing is the policies, procedures and culture that often result in officers attempting to subdue suspects alone or with just one partner rather than promptly call in backup. I have seen some interesting videos of British police subduing a man with a knife without resorting to use of lethal force. Key components of this strategy is not escalating until a lot of officers arrive. The many officers who confront the suspect then seek to fatigue the suspect by operating as a coordinated group. When the suspect advances on an officer, that officers retreats while other officers who are behind him advance. When the suspect advances in those officers, other officers advance on him. Unlike American police, British cops are not averse to just keeping the subject contained until they fall asleep.

I also point out that many American cops have been conditioned to be paranoid. I have a link to the interviews of police who were involved in a lethal shooting of an obviously suicidal man near my home. This occurred in a rural community that is low income. One of the officers comments that he was fearful that someone in the somewhat distant houses might open fire on them with a .50 BMG rifle. (He was that specific). The FBI data on homicides of police during the last half century documents that zero, zip, nada cops have ever been killed with a .50 BMG rifle. This includes the ATF raid on the Branch Davidians where the actual evidence strongly suggests that the four deceased agents were actually shoot by their own snipers. Where the fuck did this cop get the idea that some random confrontation with a mentally disturbed person was going to suddenly escalate to an ambush with weaponry of that magnitude. (The only such ambushes in recent years involving rifles of any type have been perpetrated by African Americans in urban settings. The rifles involved were all .224 caliber of 5.56 mm rodent rifles)

Now these three cops that were advancing to engage the subject were all armed with pistols (.40 S&W or .45 ACP) and one had an AR-15 rifle. Two other officers, both armed were also nearby, searching for the subject. Rather than retreat and call in additional backup, the three officers continue to advance too engage the subject.

As the three officers are getting within range to use a Taser, the officer who was armed with a Taser drops the Taser to draw his handgun. (Sig Sauer, P-220, .40 S&W.
Given my own personal experience with this officer, I suspect that he lost bowel control as well as bladder control ). The three officers continue to advance until they are within Taser range. The two officers who were expecting their colleague to use the Taser realize that he is holding his pistol. Realizing that they no longer have a non lethal (or at least less lethal weapon), they all open fire. The coroner yours to pressure to rule that the death it's a suicide.