?

cthia wrote:So, is every superpower in the galaxy now sporting all of the RMNs tech? Even the IAN has all of Project Gram's current goodies? That just seems so... ok Elizabeth, but I don't have to like it! What about future advancements coming out of Project Gram? Does the GA have a raincheck on those too?

We know that a meeting of the minds is going on at Bolthole, but will Shannon ever be invited to "Project Gram?"

"Wow. . .what a set-up you people have here. No wonder we were always two steps behind."

Is the phrase "every superpower in the galaxy" defined as being those sporting all of the RMN's tech? Because we know that the Malign do not have it.

I thought that all of Manticore's military research was packed off to Bolthole, so Shannon would see "Project Gram" that way. That means that Haven, at a minimum, is automatically included in future advancements. I expect Beowulf, Grayson and the Andermani are also included.

tlb wrote:Is the phrase "every superpower in the galaxy" defined as being those sporting all of the RMN's tech? Because we know that the Malign do not have it.

I thought that all of Manticore's military research was packed off to Bolthole, so Shannon would see "Project Gram" that way. That means that Haven, at a minimum, is automatically included in future advancements. I expect Beowulf, Grayson and the Andermani are also included.

The Weyland staff was moved out there, along with their projects. And House of Steel tells us that Project Gram, under Jonas Adcock, was housed there. But it also tells us that the output of Project Gram got funneled, as part of "Shell Game" to the more openly maintained (yet still top secret) BuWeaps R&D programs for final development into acquisition-ready systems. (Thus keeping the existence of Gram, and the even more advanced work it was still doing, far from the eyes of any trying to infiltrate the RMN's R&D - since the Shell Game method of slipping the project to normal R&D included made up pedigrees for the tech that avoided any hint a Mantie R&D group had already been working on it)

It's possible that Manticore might have kept Gram itself within the Manticoran binary system; shipping only the more open R&D groups off to Bolthole. BuWeaps normal R&D would, presumably, be working mostly on stuff closer to completion and so, in cooperation with Sharon's R&D groups at Bolthole, be well possitioned for any upgrades that would come out in the next 5 - 10 years. While if Gram was retained at Manticore it could keep working ultra-secretly on long-term long-shot projects which wouldn't be shared with Manticore's allies (at least not yet).

OTOH it's also possible that even Gram was shipped to Bolthole making Mantie R&D a completely open book to Haven and Beowulf. (Unclear if the Andies signed on to quite that level and moved any of their R&D out to Bolthole - or if they're settling for the tech sharing of only the fielded systems that they got while being Manticore's ally against Haven)

Jonathan_S wrote:

tlb wrote:Is the phrase "every superpower in the galaxy" defined as being those sporting all of the RMN's tech? Because we know that the Malign do not have it.

I thought that all of Manticore's military research was packed off to Bolthole, so Shannon would see "Project Gram" that way. That means that Haven, at a minimum, is automatically included in future advancements. I expect Beowulf, Grayson and the Andermani are also included.

The Weyland staff was moved out there, along with their projects. And House of Steel tells us that Project Gram, under Jonas Adcock, was housed there. But it also tells us that the output of Project Gram got funneled, as part of "Shell Game" to the more openly maintained (yet still top secret) BuWeaps R&D programs for final development into acquisition-ready systems. (Thus keeping the existence of Gram, and the even more advanced work it was still doing, far from the eyes of any trying to infiltrate the RMN's R&D - since the Shell Game method of slipping the project to normal R&D included made up pedigrees for the tech that avoided any hint a Mantie R&D group had already been working on it)

It's possible that Manticore might have kept Gram itself within the Manticoran binary system; shipping only the more open R&D groups off to Bolthole. BuWeaps normal R&D would, presumably, be working mostly on stuff closer to completion and so, in cooperation with Sharon's R&D groups at Bolthole, be well possitioned for any upgrades that would come out in the next 5 - 10 years. While if Gram was retained at Manticore it could keep working ultra-secretly on long-term long-shot projects which wouldn't be shared with Manticore's allies (at least not yet).

OTOH it's also possible that even Gram was shipped to Bolthole making Mantie R&D a completely open book to Haven and Beowulf. (Unclear if the Andies signed on to quite that level and moved any of their R&D out to Bolthole - or if they're settling for the tech sharing of only the fielded systems that they got while being Manticore's ally against Haven)

I can't see shipping off any research or tech that didn't have anything to do with any current research, even if it could lead to a breakthrough. Especially since current technology puts everyone head over heels above the rest. King Roger is spinning in his grave if PG has left the MBS.

What route would have been used to ship Project Gram to Haven? Did the MA miss an opportunity?

"Hands up! This is a stickup."

cthia wrote:I can't see shipping off any research or tech that didn't have anything to do with any current research, even if it could lead to a breakthrough. Especially since current technology puts everyone head over heels above the rest. King Roger is spinning in his grave if PG has left the MBS.

What route would have been used to ship Project Gram to Haven? Did the MA miss an opportunity?

"Hands up! This is a stickup."

The route would be the wormhole to Trevor's Star and then hyperspace through Haven's territory to the wormhole to Bolthole.

The reason for sending all research is that the location is still a secret, so there cannot be an Oyster Bay Part 2. That is also where Herlander Simões has been stashed, to ensure that no enemy can get to him. It was purest luck that the researchers were not wiped out in Oyster Bay and it is vital that all research can proceed safely,

cthia wrote:So, is every superpower in the galaxy now sporting all of the RMNs tech? Even the IAN has all of Project Gram's current goodies? That just seems so... ok Elizabeth, but I don't have to like it! What about future advancements coming out of Project Gram? Does the GA have a raincheck on those too?

I was thinking about this.

The SKM was under threat of invasion via wormhole, so it stands to reason that wormhole transits would be an area they'd have investigated. So, could they have come up with a stealth-transit probe? If they had had it, they could have used it to tell whether the San Martin side of the MWHJ was preparing for attack or not.

The trouble is that almost every technological breakthrough we've heard of in the series is regular evolution of established technologies. The one that got the nearest to "deus ex machina" to me was the FTL Ghost Rider, but in hindsight that was only because it was the very second book and we didn't know hyperspace too well. Now we know it's also an evolution of gravitic sensors.

Everything else is telegraphed ahead of time: pods, Apollo, improved compensators, missile-heavy ships, etc.

With two exceptions: the MDM and the spider drive. So all hope is not lost that RFC will unveil something new.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:So, is every superpower in the galaxy now sporting all of the RMNs tech? Even the IAN has all of Project Gram's current goodies? That just seems so... ok Elizabeth, but I don't have to like it! What about future advancements coming out of Project Gram? Does the GA have a raincheck on those too?

I was thinking about this.

The SKM was under threat of invasion via wormhole, so it stands to reason that wormhole transits would be an area they'd have investigated. So, could they have come up with a stealth-transit probe? If they had had it, they could have used it to tell whether the San Martin side of the MWHJ was preparing for attack or not.

The trouble is that almost every technological breakthrough we've heard of in the series is regular evolution of established technologies. The one that got the nearest to "deus ex machina" to me was the FTL Ghost Rider, but in hindsight that was only because it was the very second book and we didn't know hyperspace too well. Now we know it's also an evolution of gravitic sensors.

Everything else is telegraphed ahead of time: pods, Apollo, improved compensators, missile-heavy ships, etc.

With two exceptions: the MDM and the spider drive. So all hope is not lost that RFC will unveil something new.

A stealth-transit probe? Well, if that is done, we know from history that the next iteration would be an armed stealth-transit probe.

And if the GA can think of it, Alphas may have already beat them to the punch err probe.

cthia wrote:A stealth-transit probe? Well, if that is done, we know from history that the next iteration would be an armed stealth-transit probe.

And if the GA can think of it, Alphas may have already beat them to the punch err probe.

Not necessarily. Research does not have to be linear. As discussed recently in the forum (I forget which thread), the inspiration might have come from a bathtub product from the other side of settled space. And I'm pretty sure no one has more knowledge about wormhole physics than the Manticorans. So if anyone were to make a breakthrough, I'd put my money on them.

tlb wrote:The route would be the wormhole to Trevor's Star and then hyperspace through Haven's territory to the wormhole to Bolthole.

The reason for sending all research is that the location is still a secret, so there cannot be an Oyster Bay Part 2. That is also where Herlander Simões has been stashed, to ensure that no enemy can get to him. It was purest luck that the researchers were not wiped out in Oyster Bay and it is vital that all research can proceed safely,

Did you get the news? The Leveler Party won the election. They arrested everyone from Manticore, in Bolthole and elsewhere, as a spy.

kzt wrote:Did you get the news? The Leveler Party won the election. They arrested everyone from Manticore, in Bolthole and elsewhere, as a spy.

Pritchart can serve for three terms, each of 5 or 6 years (I don't remember).

tlb wrote:The route would be the wormhole to Trevor's Star and then hyperspace through Haven's territory to the wormhole to Bolthole.

The reason for sending all research is that the location is still a secret, so there cannot be an Oyster Bay Part 2. That is also where Herlander Simões has been stashed, to ensure that no enemy can get to him. It was purest luck that the researchers were not wiped out in Oyster Bay and it is vital that all research can proceed safely,

kzt wrote:Did you get the news? The Leveler Party won the election. They arrested everyone from Manticore, in Bolthole and elsewhere, as a spy.

Nothing as drastic as that has to happen for Bolthole to have a problem. It could be as simple as a hacker posting the location of Bolthole in a place where the Malign would find it. Off site storage of backups is still needed.

If the Levelers were to try to arrest people, perhaps Shannon has another "oops" stored away somewhere.