The Torch Wormhole

Garth 2 wrote:We know that the MAilgn "released" the information about the Junction as part of their plans and that "Manpower or an affiliate" had themselves only just found out about the Junction.

That doesn't mean that the MAilgn told the truth about the "Torch Junction", it could actually only be the "Torch Bridge". Linking "Torch to the "Twins", especially as the survey team never mentioned choosing from multiple approach vectors for their initial jump, which you would have thought would be a major discussion point.

Actually thinking abut it, they never discuss the possibility of multiple vectors and multiple entry/exit points. They seem to locate one entry point and stop asking any further questions, maybe "off-camera" they decide that the "Manpower survey" was wrong and its not a "junction" after all??

Jonathan_S wrote:Or at least concluded that there was no indication of additional termini here - so if the "Manpower survey" was right the rumor garbled it and Congo was a remote termini of the junction, rather than the junction system.

But there'd be no way to know without actually going through and seeing what the far side looked like.

Still, I don't think they would have quickly dismissed a search for signs of additional links from Congo; especially since they were already giving it a closer look due to the weird extra anomaly in their readings. And if any additional sign had been found I think that would have been mentioned "on-camera".

One way occurred to me that the leaders of Erewhon might have gotten hints about the wormhole: Mesan supervisory personnel would most likely make off-duty visits to The Wages of Sin as the nearest entertainment spot and the management might well pay special attention to anything that they said (to the extent of making recordings).

Anyone other than me who thinks Torch will be the place of several major battles like what befell Grayson?

Who is claiming the wormhole presently? And what naval support is stationed there?

cthia wrote:Uh oh, I see another naming conflict over the horizon.

We have MA for both Mesan Alignment and Manticoran Alliance.

For most people in the forum, MA is consistently Manticoran Alliance, MAlign is Mesan Alignment. And I coin "BAlign" to talk about the "benign Alignment, the people left in Mesa who think they are part of the Alignment but have no clue of the secretive Onion.

Not for everyone, though. So you have to guess from context.

Will we have MWJ for both Manticore Wormhole Junction and MAlign Wormhole Junction? Oh boy.

Why would we do that? Just use either Torch Wormhole Junction or Congo Wormhole Junction. Besides, there's the Felix Wormhole Junction that is controlled by the MAlign.

Besides, there's no evidence that the wormhole in Congo is a junction.

tlb wrote:One way occurred to me that the leaders of Erewhon might have gotten hints about the wormhole: Mesan supervisory personnel would most likely make off-duty visits to The Wages of Sin as the nearest entertainment spot and the management might well pay special attention to anything that they said (to the extent of making recordings).

I doubt it. It's far more likely that the Congo system was found from the Twins, which means the MAlign already knew that it led to Felix and at this time Darius already existed. The actual, real information about the wormhole was likely kept at the highest levels of the MAlign, inner Onion. None of those people would likely be in Verdant Vista in the first place and, if they visited, wouldn't vacation at Erewhon or let it slip.

Misinformation, on the other hand, could and probably did happen. That's why it was thought to have 3 termini.

cthia wrote:Who is claiming the wormhole presently? And what naval support is stationed there?

The Kingdom of Torch claims it and the RTN enforces its will, backed by the MARSN. We haven't heard of the RTN stationing ships near the wormhole and much less of forts, but they'd be remiss if they didn't prepare for that.

There were a lot of discrepancies in the wormhole information itself. The fact that no information could be found in the databanks is suspicious. As discussed in a previous thread, the fact it wasn't properly and publicly explored is a big red flag. And all of this was before they found out the MAlign existed or that they had ships that could attack the Manticore Binary System.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:Who is claiming the wormhole presently? And what naval support is stationed there?

The Kingdom of Torch claims it and the RTN enforces its will, backed by the MARSN. We haven't heard of the RTN stationing ships near the wormhole and much less of forts, but they'd be remiss if they didn't prepare for that.

There were a lot of discrepancies in the wormhole information itself. The fact that no information could be found in the databanks is suspicious. As discussed in a previous thread, the fact it wasn't properly and publicly explored is a big red flag. And all of this was before they found out the MAlign existed or that they had ships that could attack the Manticore Binary System.

You just answered the question you asked me upstream. The MA are going to come thru and seize that wormhole with a huge opening operation. It isn't being taken seriously, enough. At that point, it will become another MWJ. Only MA controlled. Good luck taking it back Manties. We bought along some goodies.

Encounter at Torch. No one had a ghost of a chance.

cthia wrote:You just answered the question you asked me upstream. The MA are going to come thru and seize that wormhole with a huge opening operation. It isn't being taken seriously, enough. At that point, it will become another MWJ. Only MA controlled. Good luck taking it back Manties. We bought along some goodies.

Encounter at Torch. No one had a ghost of a chance.

They won't, unless there's a specific military objective to achieve in doing so. They can't really hold the wormhole against the massed GA navies. Even the ESN and MARSN can probably respond fast enough to dislodge any beach-head the MAN manages to establish in the Congo system.

The days it would take for the response to come through may not be good for Torch or the RTN. They're on the short end of the stick. Unless the Congo System is defended by Mk42-missile pods and Mycroft, which it might be.

But as a result, the wormhole gets blocked. We've discussed this multiple times and it's impossible to attack through a well-defended wormhole. That would be true for both sides: the MAN can't get into Congo any more and the GF can't breach into The Twins to find out where that is.

So, what strategic objective would be accomplished by revealing that the wormhole does, in fact, work and that the MAlign Navy is on the other side?

cthia wrote:You just answered the question you asked me upstream. The MA are going to come thru and seize that wormhole with a huge opening operation. It isn't being taken seriously, enough. At that point, it will become another MWJ. Only MA controlled. Good luck taking it back Manties. We bought along some goodies.

Encounter at Torch. No one had a ghost of a chance.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:They won't, unless there's a specific military objective to achieve in doing so. They can't really hold the wormhole against the massed GA navies. Even the ESN and MARSN can probably respond fast enough to dislodge any beach-head the MAN manages to establish in the Congo system.

The days it would take for the response to come through may not be good for Torch or the RTN. They're on the short end of the stick. Unless the Congo System is defended by Mk42-missile pods and Mycroft, which it might be.

But as a result, the wormhole gets blocked. We've discussed this multiple times and it's impossible to attack through a well-defended wormhole. That would be true for both sides: the MAN can't get into Congo any more and the GF can't breach into The Twins to find out where that is.

So, what strategic objective would be accomplished by revealing that the wormhole does, in fact, work and that the MAlign Navy is on the other side?

We can very much hope that the Malign tries this; because when the GA takes back the wormhole, the Malign might well lose ships that will have navigational information about the other end of the wormhole. That would lead directly to Mannerheim and the mystery of the Harvest Joy.

ThinksMarkedly wrote:

cthia wrote:You just answered the question you asked me upstream. The MA are going to come thru and seize that wormhole with a huge opening operation. It isn't being taken seriously, enough. At that point, it will become another MWJ. Only MA controlled. Good luck taking it back Manties. We bought along some goodies.

Encounter at Torch. No one had a ghost of a chance.

They won't, unless there's a specific military objective to achieve in doing so. They can't really hold the wormhole against the massed GA navies. Even the ESN and MARSN can probably respond fast enough to dislodge any beach-head the MAN manages to establish in the Congo system.

The days it would take for the response to come through may not be good for Torch or the RTN. They're on the short end of the stick. Unless the Congo System is defended by Mk42-missile pods and Mycroft, which it might be.

But as a result, the wormhole gets blocked. We've discussed this multiple times and it's impossible to attack through a well-defended wormhole. That would be true for both sides: the MAN can't get into Congo any more and the GF can't breach into The Twins to find out where that is.

So, what strategic objective would be accomplished by revealing that the wormhole does, in fact, work and that the MAlign Navy is on the other side?

I don't think you're thinking clearly, from the MAs strategic standpoint. When they are ready to pounce on the galaxy, they will want to seize all termini leading into MA space. Just like the RMN tried to do against Haven. Sooner or later that wormhole will be transited again anyway. It is heavily fortified on the MA's end. They're not worried about that.

You are being too arrogantly biased against the MA, and you're accustomed to the RMN fighting pussies. When the MA act to seize. . .the equivalent of Trevor's star?, they will come loaded for bear. Lennys will already be in the system just waiting for the fun to begin, and the MA will hold the system. If you think it was difficult for the RMN to retake Trevor's Star? Pfft. Hamish will get his ass shot off this time.

Plus, the MA will have hostages. A whole frickin' planet. And nobody can blame them for treating it as it's namesake suggests. Torch it! Think they are bluffing?

Better put on your thinking cap with these guys. They're Alphas. And they've solved a few technical problems and bought a few tricks along to show off to the galaxy. With centuries old pleasure. After all, they've got a few "Dets" to collect on. "You killed my daddy!"

cthia wrote:I don't think you're thinking clearly, from the MAs strategic standpoint. When they are ready to pounce on the galaxy, they will want to seize all termini leading into MA space. Just like the RMN tried to do against Haven. Sooner or later that wormhole will be transited again anyway. It is heavily fortified on the MA's end. They're not worried about that.

You are being too arrogantly biased against the MA, and you're accustomed to the RMN fighting pussies. When the MA act to seize. . .the equivalent of Trevor's star?, they will come loaded for bear. Lennys will already be in the system just waiting for the fun to begin, and the MA will hold the system. If you think it was difficult for the RMN to retake Trevor's Star? Pfft. Hamish will get his ass shot off this time.

Plus, the MA will have hostages. A whole frickin' planet. And nobody can blame them for treating it as it's namesake suggests. Torch it! Think they are bluffing?

Better put on your thinking cap with these guys. They're Alphas. And they've solved a few technical problems and bought a few tricks along to show off to the galaxy. With centuries old pleasure. After all, they've got a few "Dets" to collect on. "You killed my daddy!"

Perhaps we will find out in the next book who is thinking clearly. As RFC wills it.