Treecat Counter

Could a treecat take down its bonded human if said human became injected with the nanites, and the pre-programmed actions were triggered?

Would a treecat know its bonded human had been injected with the nanites in the first place?

Uncompromising Honor, 'HMS Tristram; Visigoth Terminus and HMS Artemis; Tenth Fleet, Mesa System' wrote:Now he opened to that glow, embracing it, and marveled once again at the awareness that there was at least one being in the galaxy who truly and simply loved Damien Harahap despite knowing exactly who he was... and exactly what he'd done with his life.

Until Fire Watch had given him that priceless gift, he'd never once allowed himself to realize how desperately—and for how long—he'd wanted it. He didn't expect anyone who hadn't been adopted to understand how the bond worked. For that matter, he didn't understand it, himself. But he knew he would die before himself to fall short of that loving presence's expectations.

No wonder Duchess Harrington seemed so amused by it all, he thought. If anyone understood just how good a...a moral jailer Fire Watch was going to be, it had to be her. And talk about ironic justice—!

Does this sound somewhat ominous to anyone else? Like mind control?

MC1560 wrote:

Uncompromising Honor, 'HMS Tristram; Visigoth Terminus and HMS Artemis; Tenth Fleet, Mesa System' wrote:Now he opened to that glow, embracing it, and marveled once again at the awareness that there was at least one being in the galaxy who truly and simply loved Damien Harahap despite knowing exactly who he was... and exactly what he'd done with his life.

Until Fire Watch had given him that priceless gift, he'd never once allowed himself to realize how desperately—and for how long—he'd wanted it. He didn't expect anyone who hadn't been adopted to understand how the bond worked. For that matter, he didn't understand it, himself. But he knew he would die before himself to fall short of that loving presence's expectations.

No wonder Duchess Harrington seemed so amused by it all, he thought. If anyone understood just how good a...a moral jailer Fire Watch was going to be, it had to be her. And talk about ironic justice—!

Does this sound somewhat ominous to anyone else? Like mind control?

It sure does. In fact, in another thread somewhere, I posited the MA can use human paranoia to sow seeds of discord against the Cats by preaching that mind control is exactly what they do. Treecat intelligence has never been widely accepted. If it is, that can be used against them. It will be the pot calling the kettle black considering the nanite control. But their argument can be used as a counter and distraction, or to explain they've been fighting fire with fire, if need be.

George J. Smith wrote:Could a treecat take down its bonded human if said human became injected with the nanites, and the pre-programmed actions were triggered?

Would a treecat know its bonded human had been injected with the nanites in the first place?

You've asked a mouthful of a question there!

In the Humor thread, I suggested that Honor may have discussed it with Nimitz and suggested that he simply SCRAM (leave, get out of Dodge) if the Malign manages to insert a few control rods and her reactor goes critical. It could be to protect Nimitz if Honor has to be killed. Nimitz will certainly suicide if HE has to kill her.

ZVar wrote:

cthia wrote:Indeed, because I'm wondering if the bond itself can break through the conditioning.

Unlikely. It's noted the compulsion only lasts a few minutes. 10-15 I believe before the person can regain control. It's literately splicing the nerve impulses and sending nerve impulses out that do what is programed. I simply don't see how a bond could help other than maybe cut that 10-15 minutes down a bit so the real nerve impulses by the brain overwhelm the fake nerve impulses.

Zvar, Jonathan and any others.

You're probably right about that. Especially considering the small window a Cat has to work with. My apology to all of you in advance for my upcoming use of humor to explain my baggage. I suppose since I suggested elsewhere that muscle "memory" still has to pass through the main highway, the brain, a Cat who shares the closest of bonds with their mate may be able to break it. Like, say, when Data was able to insert a suggestion that the Borg should SLEEP by invading the "Collective." Perhaps Nimitz can appeal to Honor's stronger sense of...HUNGER! LOL

'Ouch!' ... Blame it on that darn boob tube!

I suppose another consideration is whether the Cat itself would be adversely affected by the conditioning when it is triggered. Will the "bonded" Cat become disheveled and confused, thus affected by the conditioning as well? Akin to being faced with needing to flee someone's nightmare after invading it when attempting to help them before they die. Again, the boob tube.

cthia wrote:
I suppose another consideration is whether the Cat itself would be adversely affected by the conditioning when it is triggered. Will the "bonded" Cat become disheveled and confused, thus affected by the conditioning as well? Akin to being faced with needing to flee someone's nightmare after invading it when attempting to help them before they die. Again, the boob tube.

Why? Would nanites jump like fleas to the treecat? No, they attach themselves physically to the human nervous system. As I mentioned upstream, a Treecat would no more react to the actions of the nanites themselves, than they would to someone unconsciously rubbing their face or fiddling with a remote. Their biggest gripe would be that the devil's hand was not absent mindedly petting them.

Theemile wrote:

cthia wrote:
I suppose another consideration is whether the Cat itself would be adversely affected by the conditioning when it is triggered. Will the "bonded" Cat become disheveled and confused, thus affected by the conditioning as well? Akin to being faced with needing to flee someone's nightmare after invading it when attempting to help them before they die. Again, the boob tube.

Why? Would nanites jump like fleas to the treecat? No, they attach themselves physically to the human nervous system. As I mentioned upstream, a Treecat would no more react to the actions of the nanites themselves, than they would to someone unconsciously rubbing their face or fiddling with a remote. Their biggest gripe would be that the devil's hand was not absently mindedly petting them.

Because they are bonded. Connected. In some cases perhaps intensely connected. Like certain pairs of twins, or lovers who are very close and love each other dearly. Oftentimes these people are so stricken with their mate's dilemma, that they are oftentimes subject to lose all sense of safety and succumb to an inability to exist. A human who has lost a loved one may be so shocked they remain or run into the hwy getting killed by an oncoming car. In a critical situation they often have to be told "We have to go! Leave him! Leave her!" I'm also asking if a Cat can be affected by the human element as well. It may not be the same as reacting to someone else who they are NOT bonded to. That seems too cavalier to assume. But, I'm only asking.

Fleas? LOL

cthia wrote:

Theemile wrote:
Why? Would nanites jump like fleas to the treecat? No, they attach themselves physically to the human nervous system. As I mentioned upstream, a Treecat would no more react to the actions of the nanites themselves, than they would to someone unconsciously rubbing their face or fiddling with a remote. Their biggest gripe would be that the devil's hand was not absently mindedly petting them.

Because they are bonded. Connected. In some cases perhaps intensely connected. Like certain pairs of twins, or lovers who are very close and love each other dearly. Oftentimes these people are so stricken with their mate's dilemma, that they are oftentimes subject to lose all sense of safety and succumb to an inability to exist. A human who has lost a loved one may be so shocked they remain or run into the hwy getting killed by an oncoming car. In a critical situation they often have to be told " We have to go! Leave him! Leave her!" I'm also asking if a Cat can be affected by the human element as well. It may not be the same as reacting to someone else who they are NOT bonded to. That seems too cavalier to assume. But, I'm only asking.

Fleas? LOL

We don't hear about bonded cats running to the litter box every time their person feels their bladder is about to burst, nor start eating whenever their human's tummy rumbles. A bonded pair's breathing is not synched, nor is their heartbeat. Autonomous and Sub conscious behaviors might be noticed, but don't effect the relationship. What we are discussing is an advanced, highly controlled version of making an arm twitch by shocking it's muscles with electrical current, or blocking other muscles from working by compressing a nerve bundle. A treecat would no more be affected by this than it would autonomously wave simply because it's human waved.

A cat wouldn't be physically affected unless the nanites could physically jump from host to host. And with DNA customized nanites, that would be.... infinitely difficult.

What is pinging the treecat is someone's emotional turmoil from their inner screaming "I'm not controlling this" - not the behavior itself.

Theemile wrote:A cat wouldn't be physically affected unless the nanites could physically jump from host to host. And with DNA customized nanites, that would be.... infinitely difficult.

What is pinging the treecat is someone's emotional turmoil from their inner screaming "I'm not controlling this" - not the behavior itself.

And for normal humans the bond appears entirely empathetic. The cats can feel their partner's emotions and to some extent possibly stabilize or affect them (hard to tell how much of that is coming through the link vs the 'cat taking physical actions to adjust their partner's behavior/state when the 'cat perceives unacceptable feelings through the bond).
But the 'cats have no link to their a normal partner's thoughts, much less their nerve signals or muscle movement. The link just doesn't appear to be to the parts of the human brain handling that.

(Now Honor is very much a special case; nearly unique. There's definitely a far deeper and more effective link between her and Nimitz; she'd not as mind blind as a normal human. But even that link - despite being able to somehow share images - doesn't use Nimitz's telepathic transmitter; it's still running entirely through the empathetic linkage)


So if a conditioning, or a behavior, doesn't cause an emotional response then it's not going to affect the 'cat. And the bond certainly isn't going to somehow control the 'cat.

Sigh

Sometimes my notions seem to be a bit too cerebral, and it perplexes me. Running to the litter box and hunger pains is a far cry from a mate who has just fallen into mortal danger and who is most likely about to kill, and, or, die. Especially when the Cat's life itself is directly dependent upon the bond. If his mate dies, he dies. A bonded pair discussing the possibility of succumbing to compulsion is one thing, but if it actually happens it might turn out to be quite another.

Applying the notion to the intense and unprecedented bond which exists between Honor and Nimitz, I'd imagine the notion is greatly exacerbated. Nimitz may be able to see the actual imagery that Honor is about to kill the Queen. Nimitz might become paralyzed by the more intense imagery of what he actually sees—being closer to the heart of the matter and closer to the surface of the emotions of her horror—than what is generally experienced by a regular Cat outside of "a" bond.

And, if what Nimitz feels and sees is the actual horror which Honor is feeling because he is the trigger and target would have to be a copper-plated bitch of a moral decision for Nimitz; who also may be simultaneously bombarded by both the emotions of Beth's Cat, Ariel, and the Queen's own bodyguards' copper-plated decision of possibly having no other available option but to kill her.

In case it isn't clear, I'm not positing a physical effect on the Cat, but an intensely emotional one.

I like book discussions guys. And I don't like leaving any stone unturned. S'times the author will say there's nothing under the stone. Oftentimes the stone is in the next book.