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Collin's assassination list

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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by cthia   » Sat Aug 22, 2020 10:14 am

cthia
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Whattaya know, three posts in-a-row, ticky-tacky-toe.


Out of the mouth of babes. An old parlor game. A way to defeat the suicide protocols? A smile is confirmation. Suppose . . .

"If he'll drop dead if you ask him questions, mom, then just play—"

"CHARADES!" :idea: Charades is a parlor or party word guessing game. Originally, the game was a dramatic form of literary charades: a single person would act out each syllable of a word or phrase in order, followed by the whole phrase together, while the rest of the group guessed. A variant was to have teams who acted scenes out together while the others guessed. Today, it is common to require the actors to mime their hints without using any spoken words, which requires some conventional gestures. Puns and visual puns were and remain common.

Literary charades

The Triumph of Clytemnestra

Becky as a Louis-Quatorze Philomela


A charade was a form of literary riddle popularized in France in the 18th century where each syllable of the answer was described enigmatically as a separate word before the word as a whole was similarly described. The term charade was borrowed into English from French in the second half of the eighteenth century, denoting a "kind of riddle in which each syllable of a word, or a complete word or phrase, is enigmatically described or dramatically represented".

Written forms of charade appeared in magazines, books, and on the folding fans of the Regency. The answers were sometimes printed on the reverse of the fan, suggesting that they were a flirting device, used by a young woman to tease her beau. One charade composed by Jane Austen goes as follows:

When my first is a task to a young girl of spirit,
And my second confines her to finish the piece,
How hard is her fate! but how great is her merit
If by taking my whole she effects her release!

The answer is "hem-lock".

William Mackworth Praed's poetic charades became famous.

Later examples omitted direct references to individual syllables, such as the following, said to be a favorite of Theodore Roosevelt:

I talk, but I do not speak my mind
I hear words, but I do not listen to thoughts
When I wake, all see me
When I sleep, all hear me
Many heads are on my shoulders
Many hands are at my feet
The strongest steel cannot break my visage
But the softest whisper can destroy me
The quietest whimper can be heard.

The answer is "an actor".


In the early 20th century, the 11th edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica offered these two prose charades as "perhaps as good as could be selected":

"My first, with the most rooted antipathy to a Frenchman, prides himself, whenever they meet, upon sticking close to his jacket; my second has many virtues, nor is its least that it gives its name to my first; my whole may I never catch!".


and

"My first is company; my second shuns company; my third collects company; and my whole amuses company".

with the answers being tartar and conundrum.


—Wiki.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:06 am

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cthia wrote:If Collin's gloves come off because the GA may be too much to chew in an all out war in the future, why wouldn't they assassinate at will and Kew to compliance? They've shown they don't care about collateral damage to people places or things, so why wouldn't they simply decimate populations on planets? Buccaneer and Parthian Shot had to have originated from Malignant minds, and may not even be the tip of the iceberg.


We know the Plan was to severely reduce the population of the settled worlds so they would be controllable. We don't know how they planned on accomplishing that but we do know they had a very casual disregard for life and the Edict. So they could definitely use such a thing if it supported their goals.

The thing is that it probably doesn't support the goals right now. The more atrocities there are, the more the public opinion is galvanised against them. The GA and the SL leadership don't need any more convincing and the GA public (especially Manticoran and Beowulfan) doesn't either. But what of the average Solarian in the street or Verger? How about the independent shippers? The more atrocities happen early on, the more people will turn against them, driving up recruitment into armed forces and intelligence services, or just plain informants.

Finally, how about the Mesans and RFers themselves? The MAlign leadership in Mesa is gone and the control in the RF is just a few infiltrated families. Can they hold the population back? Wouldn't that create more Jacks and Zacks McBrydes?

The RF and the MA are the good cop bad cop anyway. The RF can simply feign outrage. I believe that at some point, the MA are set to pull their final Houdini, if need be, as their ultimate contingency plan. The lower lines will be thrown under the GA bus.


The bad cop is still a cop. You don't see the strategy of "good cop and murderous, lunatic assassin."

So again, they will escalate, eventually. My concern is not that, it's the rate.
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by Jonathan_S   » Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:30 pm

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tlb wrote:How does that have anything to do with copyright? Copyright does not necessarily stop parody, which can make a character a laughingstock. Any other author could create a character named Honor, that was dishonorable (as long as the last name was not Harrington and she was not an officer in the Navy of Manticore).

That's also my not-a-lawyer understanding.

Though Disney definitely confuses the issue when during copyright extension lobbying they make claims that they need to retain copyright on all Mickey Mouse works to keep America's children from being subjected to lewd non-Disney Mickey Mouse movies. Copyright would keep someone from making a lewd version of a specific Mickey Mouse movies (say the Sorcerers Apprentice); because that would be an unauthorized derivative work. But it's a trademark on the Mouse that keeps people from using the character in their own original works. And they can already can hold a trademark as long as they continue to use it and defend it.
The trademark on Mickey would prevent people from making new Mickey Mouse movies even if the copyright expired on the oldest ones. (But trademark wouldn't stop them from publicly playing, or selling exact copies, of the old movies without Disney's permission)
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by cthia   » Sun Aug 23, 2020 12:29 am

cthia
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Jonathan_S wrote:
tlb wrote:How does that have anything to do with copyright? Copyright does not necessarily stop parody, which can make a character a laughingstock. Any other author could create a character named Honor, that was dishonorable (as long as the last name was not Harrington and she was not an officer in the Navy of Manticore).

That's also my not-a-lawyer understanding.

Though Disney definitely confuses the issue when during copyright extension lobbying they make claims that they need to retain copyright on all Mickey Mouse works to keep America's children from being subjected to lewd non-Disney Mickey Mouse movies. Copyright would keep someone from making a lewd version of a specific Mickey Mouse movies (say the Sorcerers Apprentice); because that would be an unauthorized derivative work. But it's a trademark on the Mouse that keeps people from using the character in their own original works. And they can already can hold a trademark as long as they continue to use it and defend it.
The trademark on Mickey would prevent people from making new Mickey Mouse movies even if the copyright expired on the oldest ones. (But trademark wouldn't stop them from publicly playing, or selling exact copies, of the old movies without Disney's permission)

Do note the inclusive.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by cthia   » Sun Aug 23, 2020 1:12 am

cthia
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Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

ThinksMarkedly wrote:
cthia wrote:If Collin's gloves come off because the GA may be too much to chew in an all out war in the future, why wouldn't they assassinate at will and Kew to compliance? They've shown they don't care about collateral damage to people places or things, so why wouldn't they simply decimate populations on planets? Buccaneer and Parthian Shot had to have originated from Malignant minds, and may not even be the tip of the iceberg.


TM wrote:We know the Plan was to severely reduce the population of the settled worlds so they would be controllable. We don't know how they planned on accomplishing that but we do know they had a very casual disregard for life and the Edict. So they could definitely use such a thing if it supported their goals.

By the writing on the wall, I'm guessing by every means at their disposal, which includes Kewing, assassinations, and possibly biological warfare. Their research in that area surely can wipe out the human race, even worse than the final wars. And they'll hold the cure.

TM wrote:The thing is that it probably doesn't support the goals right now. The more atrocities there are, the more the public opinion is galvanised against them. The GA and the SL leadership don't need any more convincing and the GA public (especially Manticoran and Beowulfan) doesn't either. But what of the average Solarian in the street or Verger? How about the independent shippers? The more atrocities happen early on, the more people will turn against them, driving up recruitment into armed forces and intelligence services, or just plain informants.

That ship has sailed. Turn against who? The RF will enter to help them turn against the UNKNOWN too.

TM wrote:Finally, how about the Mesans and RFers themselves? The MAlign leadership in Mesa is gone and the control in the RF is just a few infiltrated families. Can they hold the population back? Wouldn't that create more Jacks and Zacks McBrydes?

What are they going to tell them? CAN they tell them anything without dropping dead too? I don't think sleepers have been nanited, but I'm not sure. But what could they tell them? Only someone inside the Onion can peel the Onion. Everyone else sheds tears and drops dead if they get too close.

The RF and the MA are the good cop bad cop anyway. The RF can simply feign outrage. I believe that at some point, the MA are set to pull their final Houdini, if need be, as their ultimate contingency plan. The lower lines will be thrown under the GA bus.


TM wrote:The bad cop is still a cop. You don't see the strategy of "good cop and murderous, lunatic assassin."

It'll only make the RF more appealing.

TM wrote:So again, they will escalate, eventually. My concern is not that, it's the rate.

Commensurate with how much their hand is forced. And you know the GA will force it. I'm afraid the galaxy will burn before the GA can extinguish all the fires.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by Brigade XO   » Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:32 pm

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The only way to win is not to play.

:)
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by cthia   » Sat Aug 29, 2020 10:42 pm

cthia
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Posts: 14951
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Brigade XO wrote:The only way to win is not to play.

:)


Or play dirty. Sneak attack. Stab them in the back. Beat up their friends, says the SLN. Or, bite their ear off, says Iron Mike Tyson. Or attack them in the dark while they're eating cake, says the MA.

Joshua was a smart computer wasn't it? :geek:

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by Brigade XO   » Sun Aug 30, 2020 12:37 pm

Brigade XO
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Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:31 pm
Location: KY

It has been said that if your not cheating, your not trying hard enough.

Then there a variation on a theme from Treasure of Sierra Madre:
Rules, we don't need any stinking rules.
Not quite the same as: play by the rules or fight to win
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by cthia   » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:48 am

cthia
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Posts: 14951
Joined: Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:10 pm

I'd still like to know whether anyone inside the Onion has been given the suicide protocols. Daddy Detweiler didn't get captured, so he didn't get to die by natural causes. Natural for the MA anyway. Perhaps the sons are dedicated enough to suicide without the protocols, but, is everyone else, does textev say? What exact method does the suicide protocols use to kill anyway? It isn't like a secret tooth one bites down on, breaks, and releases a nasty poison or neurotoxin. Also, I wonder whether the protocol method is a bit more humane, making the victim see nice imagery or something, like Shangri La, before he dies, along with a feeling of euphoria. They always seem to be so resigned to the notion of dying.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble. —cthia's father. Incident in ? Axiom of Common Sense
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Re: Collin's assassination list
Post by ThinksMarkedly   » Sat Sep 05, 2020 11:16 am

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cthia wrote:I'd still like to know whether anyone inside the Onion has been given the suicide protocols. Daddy Detweiler didn't get captured, so he didn't get to die by natural causes. Natural for the MA anyway. Perhaps the sons are dedicated enough to suicide without the protocols, but, is everyone else, does textev say? What exact method does the suicide protocols use to kill anyway? It isn't like a secret tooth one bites down on, breaks, and releases a nasty poison or neurotoxin. Also, I wonder whether the protocol method is a bit more humane, making the victim see nice imagery or something, like Shangri La, before he dies, along with a feeling of euphoria. They always seem to be so resigned to the notion of dying.


The two infiltrators in Smoking Frog died on command when their farce was exposed. It's not difficult to imagine that the Detweilers have similar protocols. It might be a sequence of words or images one has to think of.

We speculated that those two agents also had involuntary protocols, so they could be triggered even if the agent decided to go rogue. I think we can safely say the Detweilers have none of that.
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